Key Take Aways from HIVEFEST 2020 & My suggestions & My proposal to the Community

in #hive11 months ago (edited)

The annual Hivefest is for me always a great event for inspiration. Many people speak with all their passion about their apps (sorry: dApps). They not only show what they achieved but also what is coming up. Though most of it we can ve read in posts as well but am not sure how it is for all of you, but I seem to miss most posts. And when I read a post, I miss the context, the story, what's next, what worked, what didn't work and so on and so fort (I have a solution for this, just read further).

I'll not talk about Hivefest itself. Many others done so already and likely will do in the coming days. The only things I'll provide you about the event itself, are the two video recordings of all the presentations held last Friday and Saturday.

From all the presentations, one key aspect I took away: The HIVE Ecosystem provides lots and lots of opportunities.

Some of these opportunities are already spotted by the dApp team, others are not. I really like the approach of the 3Speak team, the willingness, the eagerness to work together, to create solutions that can be re-used by others. I have the feeling the HIVE Ecosystem is working in too many cells that not really try to leverage each other while various cells seems to develop similar features.


Not our HIVE logo: But a great image with our name in it! (source)

Of course it is not a problem when more teams are building solutions for the same problems, the same features. However, the HIVE ecosystem is not too big and hasn't established itself as a goto blockchain for the entire crypto universe and beyond. Therefore I think it becomes almost mandatory to work together on all fronts. Why building and maintaining some piece of code while the solution is already developed by another team? Why learning from scratch how to onboard people from outside the HIVE community, while we have a few dApp owners having lots and lots experience with that already? Working together is something the 3Speak team did propose a few times at Hivefest and I love them for that.

Opportunities?

Some of the opportunities I spotted, are listed below. A brief explanation can be found in subsequent 'tiny' paragraphs. For visibility of this post, I included the HIVE usernames of some of the relevant people, something I usually don't do. Sorry for that in advance; Plz don't hate me for doing so :)

  • Integrate content search in all blogging user interfaces by using Hivesearcher
  • Create a HIVE ecosystem Wiki / knowledge service
  • Integrate 3Speak video platform with all HIVE blogging user interfaces
  • Combine StemGeeks with StemSocial
  • Create an onboarding process that is optimal for signing up new users
  • Learn from Blurt's decentralised governance model around abuse

I can list a whole lot more, but these six take aways are all topics that touches my most inner self for more than a few reasons. Most of them are quick wins, easy to setup. Some may require more work, more thoughts, more discussions. Let's make this happen, together.

I'm not a developer, or software architect, therefore can't come up with my own technical solutions, but I can work with you, the dApp teams and other community members. Ping me (comments below, Discord edje42#3711) in case of interest or in case you like to pick my brains (note: I just have a few braincells, so please don't pick the cells itself :))

Hivesearcher for all HIVE UI's

This is a no brainer and I'm still baffled why only the owner of Hivesearcher @goodkarma build this into his own dApp Ecency.

During the presentation by PeakD, we could hear the guys stating: "Content search was never high on the agenda; Not by the team, not by feedback from the community".

Still, I truly believe well integrated content search is a MUST. It is the only way to keep older content (posts and comments) relevant.

People may not ask for it. Maybe because the feature is not in their face. Maybe because most of us got accustomed to HIVE without the ability to search older content. Maybe most are not interested in older content. Who knows?

Even when not so many users will start using the content search feature, the service is readily available. It has been for quite some time! It's free to use! Why not adding a little window in all the HIVE dApps to allow for users to plug in their search words?

Hivesearcher comes with a set of search commands making it super easy to find content (posts and comments) through filtering by authors, tags and/or communities.

PeakD (@jarvie) has search capabilities, but it's not implemented simple enough; Think of Google search; That's the user experience required. LEO (@khaleelkazi) doesn't have search.


Hivefest Day One

HIVE Ecosystem Knowledge Service (eg a Wiki)

Throughout the life of HIVE, I've promoted the need for a place to serve as a knowledge centre. First with HIVE and now also with Leo Finance: It's too hard to find the knowledge one needs of anything around the blockchain and our ecosystem. Either we need to go through a whole history of posts, and/or we need to subscribe ourselves to yet another Discord server (have way to many of them already), and sometimes a Telegram group (we can do with many less of these groups). These are all message based services of which the most recent posts and chats gets lost almost immediately after entering.

Why not learn from the best? Wikipedia showed the world, long before blockchains was invented, the power of a decentralised knowledge centre. We need one for sure! And we need all HIVE dApp owners to populate it with information. We need the HIVE community to populate it with content. It shall contain all sort of information, from facts to do's and don't, from user guides and experiences to listings of all the dApps including contact information of all the teams around in our ecosystem.

Some people reacted to me: "We don't need a Wiki. Let's write what we want in posts. Thats the way for newbies and more established users to learn about HIVE and LEO." Usually followed by the question: "When was the last time you check the FAQ of some service?" My usual answer: "Where is the button to the FAQ? I don't see it anywhere?" Another answer I give, is more like a question: "You don't use Google or any other search engine?"

The only thing the UI owners need to do, it to add a button to the many buttons and information fields we already have in the dApp UI's. A button that links to the knowledge centre. This button shall be placed at a logical location in the UI, with a logical description.

It's simply too easy, but I feel I have to spell this out and I feel a bit stupid by doing so.

Back in time when we had the blue colours, we had a Wiki, but none of the UI's integrated a link to that one. Why in the name of you know who, not? I really don't know. I was always dumbstruck something simple like this was never executed on.

It's maybe a little bit more complicated to come up with a good wiki with a solid reward system around it for those who contribute to new and changed content, the moderator teams that may be required and all. But why not starting with the experiences of the original founder of the other wiki we had before?

3Speak video platform integration with other UI's

During the Hivefest, the moment the PeakD team mentioned their users are requesting for the support of video, I thought of leveraging the platform of 3Speak. Another absolute no brainer! Fortunately @theycallmedan had the same in mind and offered PeakD to work together. Thank you Dan!

A day later when I listened to the 3Speak presentation by the other founder @starkerz, it became clear to me how obvious it is for the 3Speak team to enable all the other UIs with support for video. The team believes in open source (check), believes in re-use of technology (check check double check...hear hear), plans white labelled versions of what they develop (the way to go!) and is more than willing to co-operate with other teams. Win Win Win Win.

The time the PeakD team (and other UI developer teams) will win by not developing their own video platform, can be spend on more useful services while the time spend to the video platform by the 3Speak team will be turned into a higher level of usage because of the increased demands.


Hivefest Day Two

STEM: StemGeeks and StemSocial

STEM: Science, Technology, Engineering and Math.

We seem to have two teams trying to create some momentum in this area. Two teams that seem to take it slow. Who knows why? Maybe because to limited resources available in each team? Or too limited traction?

StemSocial is initiated and run by some scientists, researchers and professors @lemouth and @mobbs. They have their own website and they have a long standing proposal that doesn't seem to be attractive enough to get funded.

On the other hand we have StemGeeks, founded by @themarkymark with its own pre-hive.blog cloned user interface and its own token. Progress is also pretty slow with this project.

Both projects focussing on the exact same niche. Both projects acting on same or similar tags. Why not join hands and work together? The network of the StemSocial team is large. The monetary system is setup by StemGeeks. I can't see why this shall not become one and the same service, and why the proposal (maybe with some adjustments) can't be funded? Or am I missing something here?

Onboarding Tools optimised to our Ecosystem

The guys at Splinterlands (@yabapmatt) seems to have a lot of experience in onboarding crypto but also none crypto minded people. Recently the LEO team launched Twitter based onboarding. HIVE has this onboarding website, and some volunteers going through various social networks to try and attract users.

Why is this all so decentralised? Why are experiences of other teams not shared? Wouldn't it be better and way more efficient to centralised the whole onboarding and marketing aspects of HIVE and all the HIVE dApps? Shouldn't we bring the specialists in our community, and all the experiences in our ecosystem, together? Shall these experts not define best practices? Shall we not implement tools to support these best practices and execute them irrespective of the dApp involved?

I realise, not all dApps are the same, and different types of dApps may require (slight) different approaches and tools. Why not forming a team of experts who will advise and assist dApp teams, as a minimum. They can help the less experience teams the 'what' and 'how' around onboarding campaigns. They may even design and execute campaigns on behalf of the dApps!

Decentralised doesn't mean unstrcutured, is something I hear a lot. So let us create some structure then! :)

Multi dimensional Governance

You may know, Blurt was established last summer (July timeframe) as another spinout of the Steem chain. Their approach is quite different to the approach of HIVE, which is a good thing and we can learn from it.

For one, BLURT removed the downvote feature with the net effect the amount of abuse is high. BLURT's answer to this problem: A governance system very similar to our HIVE witnesses, but tasked not with running the blockchain but tasked with the decision to 'remove' (I suppose more like 'block') an account.

I believe the BLURT team implemented a consensus based on the 'ok' by 2/3 of the abuse control witnesses to nuke an account, before that action is actually executed.

We have our own Hivewatchers. Many are cool with them, other don't. Their operating model is transparent, however it's a centralised team. The way BLURT implemented abuse control is much more decentralised. Wouldn't the combination not be the best way forward for the HIVE Ecosystem?

I would like all of use to think about this together with the core team developers lead by @blocktrades and @howo

Final Thoughts and Offer

I think we are on the good track within the HIVE Ecosystem. However we can do so much more by really working together. By not inventing the same wheel over and over but help and support each other. Share information. Decide collectively to create the tools we need and share the developments. I think we will all benefit when we share or knowledge and experiences, not only in dev terms, but also on all business aspects of each individual project.

I was impressed by the capabilities of AltspaceVR. Marky was the one with experience with this VR room and helped to create the HIVE world. I believe we shall create more rooms, maybe a complete HIVE world with everything in it, from conference rooms, community areas, hangout and chill out spots, to stages with entertainment and when possible even a club. Though I don't own VR glasses and I'm not familiar at all with VR games and services, I'll make an effort to understand how to build these worlds and rooms. During Hivefest @ewkaw created a room showing the main stage on screen, through an integration with YouTube showing the livestream through that platform. How could would it be when we can get DJs streaming live sets? I'll be reaching out to a few of you I know already done something in this VR world. But first things first: I'll be trying to learn how to model a room, maybe even to try and model a world. Guess I need to ask for a very relevant gift by our guy from the North: VR glasses and controls. And maybe also a more powerful laptop, since mine was screaming a lot when attending Hivefest :)

My offer to all the dApp teams and all those who have great ideas, to get in contact and I'll do my best to help you in any way I can.

I'm experienced in the role of product manager (commercial and technical), solution consultant, solution architect and concept creator. The role of consultant (business, functional and technical) is born with me. I've gained loads of experience during the last 3 decades working for small and large multi nationals, from startups to early growth companies, from established companies, to runner ups and market leaders. I've engaged with and in many cultures around the world. Still learning, but with lots of knowledge and experiences. Added to that, I'm a problem solver, I'm creative. I'm someone who can dream and at the same time I'm very much grounded. Pragmatic and optimistic, does describe my character. Motivator and challenger at the same time.

I gladly spend time with your project, to help you as much as I can. Just let me know, and we'll be able to establish quickly if I can be of any assistance in bringing your project, concept or idea to the next level.

Let Us Work Together

special thanks to @roelandp for setting up and managing the Hivefest event

a HIVE original
all images by edje unless stated otherwise

qsounds music & story library | A...K | L...Z |
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 11 months ago (edited)

Progress is also pretty slow with this project.

How is the progress pretty slow on STEMGeeks? It seems to be working pretty well. What metric are you using to determine progress is slow?

Both projects focussing on the exact same niche. Both projects acting on same or similar tags. Why not join hands and work together? The network of the StemSocial team is large. The monetary system is setup by StemGeeks. I can't see why this shall not become one and the same service, and why the proposal (maybe with some adjustments) can't be funded? Or am I missing something here?

They may use some of the same tags, but they are very different projects. STEMSocial focuses on Journalist / professional quality content, and as far as I can see mostly science.

STEMGeeks is more amateur and hobbyist friendly and no particular focus on any of the STEM topics, although I am personally more Technology focused.

Thanks for your quick response.

How is the progress pretty slow on STEMGeeks? It seems to be working pretty well. What metric are you using to determine progress is slow?

I believe the UI is very basic and shall get additional features, like the search feature and more I'm talking about in my post. I believe PeakD like, or LEO like UI's will attract more users, also in the STEM side of things.

STEMGeeks is more amateur and hobbyist friendly and no particular focus on any of the STEM topics, although I am personally more Technology focused.

I really don't see why these two focus areas can't be merged. At some stage I think we can breakup in all sort of services and communities, but we need to get to a critical mass. Yes, we have lots of chain users, but just a handful of active users. I believe we shall work as much as possible together, grow the user base and when we reach critical mass, we can further decentralise and breakout sub-genres, topics and what not.

I believe the UI is very basic and shall get additional features, like the search feature and more I'm talking about in my post. I believe PeakD like, or LEO like UI's will attract more users, also in the STEM side of things.

There is really no budget for such a thing, it's a big project to rebuild the site (would cost $10,000-20,000). With no revenue stream, really can't justify such a cost, especially since Hive doesn't have a lot of people writing about STEM topics to begin with.

I really don't see why these two focus areas can't be merged. At some stage I think we can breakup in all sort of services and communities, but we need to get to a critical mass. Yes, we have lots of chain users, but just a handful of active users. I believe we shall work as much as possible together, grow the user base and when we reach critical mass, we can further decentralise and breakout sub-genres, topics and what not.

We both have totally different goals and very different projects.

There is really no budget for such a thing, it's a big project to rebuild the site (would cost $10,000-20,000). With no revenue stream, really can't justify such a cost, especially since Hive doesn't have a lot of people writing about STEM topics to begin with.

I understand costs involved. Some high power users seem to vote for the StemSocial proposal. Not enough, but when you (and your team) and the StemSocial team work together, create a joint proposal, the funds could very well be coming from our own proposal system. I know I will vote for it... though my vote is not worth a lot, I know. But I'll do all my best to get the number of votes required.

Added to that, the HIVE based STEM shall be promoted in various ways. Am not a marketing specialists, but some other teams have gained lots of experience already with marketing like the Leo team or the Splinterlands team. In collaboration with them and maybe others in the community and from other dApps in our ecosystem, this could be given a nice boost.

We both have totally different goals and very different projects.

In the 'detail' this maybe true. Have you seen the content from the other team? Not so much different. But I have an outsiders view, which makes it easier to see the simularities.

You know? I curate music side of HIVE every single day and in that area I hate to see soo many HIVE communities. I fully understand why, all communities have a different angle. But when I put on my helicopter hat, I see a super fragmented music section at HIVE, and because of that, this section is harming itself from growth. Because of such fragmentation, I even see lots of music post not posted into any community. The users don't know where to go. I try to help and give information and support. But even that doesn't seem to help a lot. Though I get some positive results here and there 🙃🎶

I understand costs involved. Some high power users seem to vote for the StemSocial proposal. Not enough, but when you (and your team) and the StemSocial team work together, create a joint proposal, the funds could very well be coming from our own proposal system. I know I will vote for it... though my vote is not worth a lot, I know. But I'll do all my best to get the number of votes required.

I'm not sure I really agree with much of what is being funded, most of it isn't being used by many people and they are dumping it on Binance.

I don't think STEMSocial even works right now. Last few times I have checked it was down and the project leads said they are too busy to work on it.

When I built STEMGeeks, I didn't really know that much about SteemSTEM (the name at the time) and tribes were very new. There was no Hive communities either. I wanted to encourage more STEM related content here.

There was no Hive communities either. I wanted to encourage more STEM related content here.

I very much appreciate that :) It has been a bit of time ago I've last spoken with the StemSocial guys as well. Though they may be a bit quiet now, that doesn't mean they can be woken up again?

I'm not sure I really agree with much of what is being funded, most of it isn't being used by many people and they are dumping it on Binance.

Yea, that's maybe true, but that doesn't mean a STEM project could not be funded? And maybe not a lot of funds are required initially anyway.

I realise, when building a UI from scratch, is a lot of work. But somehow the LEO team seem to have used code from PeakD before their recent UI upgrade (and maybe they still using some PeakD code, I dont know, but their previous UI was very much similar to PeakD). PeakD guys said at one point in time, they plan to open source. Since they are funded right now from the proposal system, I would assume this became a reality. Not that I like PeakD UI the best, but it has lots of features to make the STEM experience better, build right into it. Anyway, as I mentioned at the end of my post, I'm a problem solver as well as someone who can dream... I maybe dreaming now just right after Hivefest, but it give me lots of enthusiasm and energy to try to help and support where I can.

I realise, when building a UI from scratch, is a lot of work. But somehow the LEO team seem to have used code from PeakD before their recent UI upgrade (and maybe they still using some PeakD code, I dont know, but their previous UI was very much similar to PeakD).

First off, Leo is not using any Peakd code although they used some design ideas from Peakd.

Leo is able to do it because Khal took a big risk but in the end he has a unique advantage no one can mimic. Finance is a common theme with everyone here on Hive. Every other tribe is a tiny niche out of a small community. Finally everything Khal does is on topic with the tribe. For example if I created wrapped STEM token very few would be interested as STEMGeeks is nothing to do with crypto and won’t get the same interest and excitement. It also makes it uniquely hard to create interest and revenue.

I do understand the difference in STEM and Leo and their focus and interest right from the community and outside HIVE from the crypto universe (well, initially Ethereum users I suppose). For STEM it's certainly not that easy. However, ways must exists to bring STEM to the next level. I have no idea how big or small this topic is, but many ezines services around publishing in this space. With some creativity, some passion and some work, opportunities can be found to grow STEM at HIVE. When you are interested I'm more than happy to connect through a voice session so we can share information and perhaps brainstorm a bit to see if we can get to some low hanging fruit? I already gave some ideas for funding, and I believe STEM should be possible to receive funding. With funds, the first steps can be made already, making following steps easier.

Are you suggesting we do away with downvotes?

If we adopt the blurt model of dealing with abuse, I'll announce my departure from this platform.

This does not require a hardforking solution.

I like hivewatchers and more funding to them, but the black lists, and perhaps some more tools are good enough.

Are you suggesting we do away with downvotes?

Nope, not at all. I do believe we need the downvote button for any account to be able to use without agreements with others.

But I think we could do with the possibility to remove an account, or block it completely. It shall be used with great care since I do not want HIVE to be seen as or become a platform of censoring, but some accounts just needs to be blocked indefinitely and some other temporarily. A multi dimensional governance model could handle such function. Shall it be based on 20 accounts to nuke an account? Maybe not, maybe it shall be based on 100 accounts, I don't know.

We can think of using this multi dimensional consensus model for other things as well. Maybe we get another layer of witnesses to oversee the activities of the chain witnesses and give their value to each individual witness based on a defined set of parameters? This will help the community, all those who don't know anything about witnesses, to determine whom they will give their votes. Kinda like the parliament and senate in political systems. If need be, we create a third layer, and forth. I don't know.

I just got inspired by this extra dimension of governance used by BLURT while I'm also thinking of all the issues we see with abuse in general and the amount of users that never change their witness votes and even when they want to change, they have hard times to determine who to give their vote to.

We are still a small community, but what if we are 100 times larger? We need mechanism more than we have today to make sure we 1) grow 2) will not get out of control. Multi dimensional consensus based governance could help these to aspects and make everything more decentralised and 'democratic' in a practical sense.

I have no solution myself yet, I just see opportunities. I truly believe we shall start debating the fact we could do something with re-using the consensus system we have for our base layer, to implement a multi dimensional governance system instead of the (more or less) single dimension we have around our chain.

Note that 1) I do like Hivewatchers as well and trust these guys 2) Hivewatchers is a centralised team, therefore not following the ideals and rules of decentralisation. Do we like to keep it like this for the long term? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we need more Hivewatchers teams working independently? Maybe we implement a governance system that can nuke Hivewatchers and simiar accounts/teams when they become abusive? Maybe we shall implement a governance system for all those who feel they are falsely accused by Hivewatchers and leave the final judgement to such decentralised governance system rather then to a central team? Even the blacklists are centralised implementations at the moment. Maybe the governance system shall drive and decide for who gets onto the blacklist?

Well, I'm glad we see eye to eye on keeping downvotes. I don't really like to think about changes in how content censorship should work with those off the table which is why I don't like Blurt.
However, I do see value in having a system that can more easily remove extreme content. I'm not a fundamentalist libertarian either and obviously, some content is completely unwanted here. This level of censorship would require a hard fork to implement.
You are right that there is no real safe way to give anyone the keys to that. One safe way could be to keep a list of stuff that is to be permanently removed and do away with it every hard fork (give them 30 days minimum to appeal). The list could be made public and a voting system could be in place with people being able to delegate their vote. I would still recommend some control over the list. For example certain nomination requirements and certain people with authority to manage it.
I think giving people 30 days to appeal would buy them time if they are falsely accused by hive watchers. It will give plenty of time to save the content to republish if they clear their name after.
Another problem I've always thought about is when the abusers get away with months of abuse before getting caught. There is no whitelist to start publishing and the cost to create a new account is at most a couple of dollars which can easily be recovered in a single post.
Perhaps a way to verify new users would be great, as well as a trust score. This could all be done via 3rd party and completely optional. It would be of great use to the larger curators who actually care about the content they vote for. The way I envision this is we vote for a 3rd party side account for new users until they are verified and trusted. I think anyone serious about producing content could wait a couple of weeks until the rewards are handed over and then trust is established.
Too many people are milking the system. They are hard to deal with. The corruption wasn't fixed with Hive. There doesn't seem to be much motivation or enthusiasm to clean it up. The price of Hive and overall market cap isn't as good as it ought to be.

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Holy Gamoly, I am living under a rock !! Darkest Africa indeed. I did not even know HiveFest was on in this Covid times.

Some great points and well articulated (for a person with few brain cells {grin}) post @edje

I will read it again with more focus once the alcohol haze has subsided.

🤣🤣🤣 {LOL....LOL....LOL}

I have my moments. The intention was to go with a kinda short form, and then you've seen what happened... Guess I wrote this when my 2 cells didn't fight but worked together for once 😎

You take it easy coming days, too many stressful days ahead of us in 2021 anyways 😉

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