RE: Mysterious viruses and how to find them? An exclusive with Veeru - the Virus facing existential crisis.

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I very much appreciate this substantive and very informative post (as well as being quite far from dry and unreadable!) from someone with the specific skillset and professional experience requisite to virology. It has been sorely needed in the maelstrom of disinformation, misinformation, and propaganda swirling around the all too scanty real and factual information available during the last couple years of political trauma.

Given your expertise, I wonder if you would be kind enough to address some questions that I have, or have been asked of me my personal education has not enabled me to answer with certainty. If you can, I would be grateful.

Kary Mullis directly stated the PCR technique was absolutely not usable as a diagnostic test. He explained that simply by cranking up the cycles, PCR could be used to provide positive results for virtually anything tested for. I have read several sources that say 20-24 cycles is the upwards limit for reliable detection of sequences being replicated. Would you address the suitability of PCR as a testing mechanism for these parameters?

I have also read that PCR tests are cranked up to as many as 40-45 cycles, which Kary Mullis compared to the Buddhist philosophy that you can find all things in all things, he often cracking wise while he was with us. Because of this, and the CDC allowing tests contaminated with genetic material known to them to be certain to produce positive results, as many as 97% of the PCR positive test results are claimed to be false. These issues are perhaps best addressed in addition to the potential of PCR to be suitable at all for diagnostic testing.

There has been much claimed about Koch's Postulate and how it has not been met for SARS2, which you briefly address, rather indirectly. I have not yet read the link provided to the paper you mention that is claimed to show SARS2 viruses taken directly from a patient, but will read that, and if I have any questions as to whether it resolves the issue of proof that SARS2 is the pathogen causing Covid, I will ask them at that time.

I hope you can find the time and are willing to address my questions.

Thanks!



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I have not yet read the link provided to the paper you mention that is claimed to show SARS2 viruses taken directly from a patient.

No answer received. As so often, critical questions remain ignored.

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I did read the piece you link below, and I was struck by, and strongly agree with, the sentiment you express there.

"Why all of a sudden all billion people are supposed to think equally for all billion people is something that no one can explain with reason."

I suspect you have heard of Matthias Desmet, and his explanation of why people do this, as a mass formation. Several conditions prime people for this way of relating to each other, perhaps the most salient is an inchoate anxiety, and second to that feeling disconnected and unfulfilled. As much as 30% of the population prior to the corona panic were so disconnected they reported not having one significant social contact, and most of us are driven to such inchoate sense of anxiety by the endless beating of the drums by enemedia of bad news.

When that enemedia rang the alarms and called everyone to action against covid, a great many people found fulfillment in pointing to covid as the source of their fears and anxiety, and an almost religious duty to do as told to counter it. They felt this fulfillment even if the religious observations were ridiculous, such as cloth masks to prevent viral transmission, comparable to highway tunnels stopping motorcycle traffic.

These people feel strongly connected to society, rather than to one another, yet that solidarity with society gives them a feeling of oneness with each other when they see others performing the same religious ablutions, lining up for the prescribed jabs, regardless of any harm such holy flagellation could do them or their children.

Some have characterized this formation as a psychosis, and it can certainly produce seemingly psychotic acts of cruelty and barbarism, as I have observed previously, after 9/11, when ordinary people advocated torturing people suspected of terrorism, even torture and rape of the children of suspects, because the government ordered it to keep them safe from terrorism - that the government itself committed.

Let us hope we do not see such deranged and savage barbarity against dissidents in the holy war against covid. There has already been far too brutal dismissal of our bodily autonomy, and even approval of the concentration camps that have been deployed in Oz, for example.

Thanks!

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No, I don't know Matthias Desmet, but I would agree that people look for and need a task that marks them as "good" because they care immensely what others think of them.
Where it is easy to make a good name for oneself because it is accepted by the majority that "there is good to be done there", people jump up, I think that is obvious.

My thought behind this is what a person "in reality thinks of themselves", what image they have of themselves. Starting from an inferior self-worth, I would think, it rises proportionally in that person what others think and talk about oneself. The less a person sees him/herself as valuable, the more important the external image becomes.

The fact that such became a mass phenomenon in such a short time was a cause of concern for me personally, while for those who joined the "save the people" mission it had been more of a confirmation that there was now something "really significant to do". I was suspicious of this actionism, it made me sceptical, while others saw the exact opposite.

Once I asked a friend who joined the phenomenon if she thought it was realistic that all people without exception would join the measures without any further argumentation? She said, "Hm. No, that's actually not realistic."

I basically made this the core of my conversations. It's not only unrealistic, it's downright utopian to think, or even to want to have "all people on earth united" (share the same notion). It's for me not salvation, it's horror.

Yes, let's hope, the opposing camps find each other in better conversations and live and let live circumstances.

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From a scientific paper of Max-Planck-Institute quoted:

The history of virus research in the 20th century is usually portrayed as a continuous process, as a history of progressive revelation of virus nature (see Waterson 1978: xii; Hughes 1977: 75 ff.; for a critique of this concept see van Helvoort 1994a:187).

However, our analysis of the case study material has revealed some things that lead away from such a view of history. In particular, it was shown that the refinement and expansion of experimental means and procedures, which is generally seen as a guarantee for uninterrupted progress in the knowledge of nature, had rather led to setbacks in the period under consideration (for example, in the development of virus classification) and had deepened the gap between the contending parties in virus research.

With the "filterable" virus, something had been discovered of which, according to the concepts handed down, which had after all mostly proven themselves in the research of infectious diseases, no picture could be formed which all researchers could have shared.

Very different interpretations of the nature of this phenomenon emerged and were put forward against each other. No experimental proof for this or that concept, which all researchers would have had to recognise, could be presented by either side.

This means that the decision as to whether this or that explanation most accurately expresses the "true" nature of the virus could not be "objectified" empirically.

Page 57 ff recommended reading (language: German). Source: https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/Preprints/P125.PDF

Also: read my post where I extracted it from: https://hive.blog/imformationwar/@erh.germany/what-fills-the-gap-if-you-don-t-believe-in-the-contagion-theory

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I have a fundamental problem with theories that oppose the germ theory of disease. This is that the germ theory of disease is what I have observed all my life in the natural environment. It is simply predation. Big fish eat little fish, but extrapolated such that groups of little fish eat big fish.

Predation is clearly obvious, and no one credibly contests it. It is also plainly obvious that groups of small creatures prey on larger creatures, and even solitary small creatures prey on larger creatures, although such predation is called parasitism. Fleas, mosquitoes, leeches, and all manner of small organisms make a living by consuming parts of larger creatures without killing them outright to do so, and this is the difference between parasitism and predation.

When a lion eats you, it kills you outright. When a mosquito eats you, you generally live through being eaten because the mosquito eats so little.

I am absolutely confident that creatures smaller than fleas and leeches live and make a living eating larger creatures, because the difference in size between a leech and a bacteria does not materially change the mechanism of predation such that bacteria cannot do so.

I find any argument against such obvious parasitism completely irrational, and unsupported by evidence whatsoever.

When confronted with the concept of viruses, which are not living things at all, but simply RNA or DNA mechanisms, the mechanism of contagion is very different, because we aren't talking about living things, but what are essentially chemicals.

Biochemistry reveals myriad mechanisms that range in complexity from quite simple to incomprehensibly complex, and that latter extreme is where we find viruses. However, viruses are not the only biochemicals that are so complex, and myriad hormonal and other processes have naturally arisen over ~4B years of evolution that are also similarly complex. Some of the extraordinary complexity of biological systems remains quite difficult to characterize and understand, including epigenetics, cancer, and hormones.

When we are confronted with such complexity that surpasses our ability to observe and characterize, we must necessarily resort to obscure and complex mechanisms of observation, and undertake processes of hypothesis and experiment to ascertain objective reality and form rational theories supported by empirical evidence. We cannot hold hormones in our hands and observe them in their intricate dance of biological function, and neither can we do so with viruses.

That does not make viruses fake, anymore than it makes hormones fake, and it greatly increases the difficulty of understanding and characterizing them. That difficulty also prevents many people from attaining to rational understanding of biochemistry, because they lack the ability to rationally understand very complex things, either due to their educational background, or innate inability to undertake such education.

As Dunning Kruger asserts, most people believe themselves more competent than they are, and this includes myself, as I have recently proved in my correspondence with @lemouth regarding physics. I am not a physicist, and it took him weeks to gently allow me to establish that fact to my satisfaction, an admirable achievement in my estimation.

I am neither a biochemist, and lack the specific expertise to rationally consider virology, and this is true of almost the entire population of the world, and I note Dr. Kaufman himself acknowledges. Therefore I do not claim to know that this or that virus exists, nor does not.

I do understand the mechanism by which complex biochemical interactions occur, and this does not exclude parasitic mechanisms, such as viruses, and also includes many other mechanisms, such as jumping genes, which I have not personally undertaken to verify as actual and real. I note that such things are rationally possible, and leave my judgment unfixed, because I am incompetent to make judgments on such matters and I know it.

Contagion theory is absolutely provable from observations I have made myself, at scales I can observe. I have personally been eaten by fleas, leeches, and mosquitoes, and know damn well my parts have been converted into baby fleas, leeches, and mosquitoes, confirming that at scales observable with the naked eye, contagion theory is fact. I have personally observed bears, eagles, and my family eating salmon, and am personally the result of such contagion at a higher trophic level.

I have also seen microscopic evidence of bacteria doing the exact same thing, and am convinced that at every trophic level, biological life undertakes to consume living things and reproduce. While I am not a mechanic, I am familiar with mechanical forms of reproduction that reproduce non-living things, such as factories and assembly lines, and I am equally confident that similar processes are undertaken at every trophic level, including molecular, which is the range at which biochemical processes occur.

I do not agree that terrain theory disproves virology, or the many arguments made by people incapable of understanding biochemistry disprove anything. I am incompetent to make such assertions, and I am ok with that. I am confident that a great many people fail to acknowledge they are incompetent to make such judgments and do make them.

This leads to my fundamental disagreement with making such claims on social media, because it is absolutely certain that doing so will lead to gaining believers that are incompetent to understand or judge the truth of the matter, because of Dunning Kruger absolutely being fact, as I have just proved myself, about myself, only last week. Doing that poisons the well of dissent that I am capable of, by restricting myself to facts and information I am competent to understand, such as that the jabs have caused more reported deaths than all other vaccines in the history of VAERS combined.

There are lots of very good and easy to understand facts that enable rational people to make judgments regarding covid, the jabs, and the policies of governments that prove we are being lied to and harmed by those means. Poisoning the well prevents humanity from maximizing our effective resistance to what is obviously a global imposition of totalitarian tyranny, by confusing our understanding of the things we are ubiquitously competent to understand, such as fraud, genocide, and crimes against humanity.

I stick to those subjects in my posts, while seeking more information I am competent to understand regarding subjects I do not have the education to make such judgments about. I am educating myself by making such inquiries of specialists, as I have done here. While I did not get an answer, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, and I will continue to seek information as necessary before I make judgments.

Thanks!

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I agree that I lack the technical background to form an unambiguous opinion on the subject of virology. You got hung up on my headline and I see that you think that such statements are rather counterproductive to what people have recognised as beyond doubt. The question of whether one believes in contagion or not is a stylistic device of exaggeration, nevertheless I clarify further on how I arrived at such a formulation and what fundamental views underlie it.

Personal perception has limits and so does what one thinks one has observed in oneself and others - especially in retrospect and under the influence of the last two years, I can say that I have lost indifference in how I view the issue of contagion. It is now rather distorted by events and I can only say that I currently have a completely different habit of observation than I had all those years ago. I am in doubt and I think it is doubt that must not lose its justification in any case.

Leaving aside the provocation caused by the statement "to believe or not to believe in contagion", I would think that every serious scientist always leaves room for doubt and remains open to further discussion. As long as it comes from people whom he trusts to have this doubt. I agree with you there. That's why I quoted the paper from the Max Planck Institute.

My post and many others refer to a subsequent context, when it comes to deciding or having to decide questions that are basically undecidable for one personally, precisely because one has no professional expertise in this area. These are therefore questions of conscience and self-reference that everyone answers subjectively (of course, it would be desirable if everyone did so on the basis of sources that offer a halfway rational foundation for this). But that is not the reality, I hardly believe that anyone takes the trouble, or even has the time, to deal with scientific papers in depth and breadth.

Ultimately, what is a jumping off point for me, is that subjective, even irrational decisions a person makes should not be taken away from them as invalid, as such irrationality occurs in all of us (often even occurs unconsciously). From experience, I can say that it is pointless to hold this against someone if there is a lack of consciousness to do so.

However, those who remain on the surface and only take offence at exaggeration or provocation without taking the wider context into account are not serious interlocutors for me either (as I have experienced in various conversations).

Where I see myself as an expert in a field (in which I have many years of theoretical and practical work behind me), it is a case of mutual respect how much space I give my counterpart who, for example, takes a different (in my eyes irrational) view to my expert statements or won views) that let me come to see where his doubt or even anger comes from.

Have you ever been surprised, in a positive sense, by the opening of the space beyond expertise, for example, by someone you did not expect?

The art of asking questions, the gift of gaining the interest of someone who is initially irrational, stupid or otherwise emotionally aroused, seems to me to be underdeveloped also in online debates. It seems to be covered by the much more dominant habit of mutually disagreeing with what one says either from one's expertise or what one says coming from one's conscience, one can hardly be played off against the other. When it comes to winning and the competition of "who has the better arguments", there is hardly any chance of parting respectfully.

The expert will find this much more difficult, because he considers himself to be the one who knows more, doesn't he? The non-expert, however, can be the greatest teacher if he is given the space to ask questions and is listened to. In my professional field, I have been surprised by people who have made clever and remarkable statements (also and precisely because they were not experts) when I was able to get down from my occasional high horse.

For me, the unusual nature of "stupid questions" or the provocation in the formulation is a point that throws a spanner in the works of habitual thinking.

It really depends on who you talk to, right? Respect is something which builts itself over time, when one realizes that you have a person in front of you, you can actually talk to.

Now, I will not talk the subject from a point of view ("do viruses objectively exist?") where I put myself above an expert but I still take liberation to explain where I come from and why I have questions. If my post did not do this for you, for example, I can't help it. But I am fine with you.

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In the wider context you have graced me with here, I find much to agree with. Particularly this.

"...it is doubt that must not lose its justification in any case."

That is the place I try to live in, and why I was led to reply as I did, noting I exemplified Dunning Kruger and that I needed to doubt my own competence and belief in my understanding.

"Have you ever been surprised, in a positive sense, by the opening of the space beyond expertise, for example, by someone you did not expect?"

Very much so. I confess it is my experience at the moment, as I have grossly misunderstood your initial comment regarding unbelief in the contagion theory, and expected an explication of terrain theory.

Instead I find compassion in it's place. I find that extraordinary, and very, very refreshing.

Thank you for that.

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I thank you, too. I very much appreciate your response. Happy to receive back from you what you've found refreshing.

expected an explication of terrain theory.

What do you mean by that?

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A lot of people ascribe to what they refer to as Terrain Theory, which explains away observations of what virologists say are viruses as exosomes, or expulsions of the contents of dying distressed cells.

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