Steem? Tron? Ston? Treem?- confusions and questions

in hive-167922 •  2 months ago 

Question, what is TRON actually buying? The Steemit Inc Stake? The Steemit Inc developers? Do they think they bought the blockchain?

Why have a token swap to a new token? Why would they need that at all as they do not need Steem to make a new token and it would be ridiculous for them to buy Steem tokens and then turn them into TRC or whatever they will call it? If they want Steem dApps on their network, they do not need Steemit Inc for that at all.

Interesting times for sure!

Witnesses?

I am also guessing there isn't much need for Steem Witnesses over at TRON, which is interesting in itself. About a year ago there was talk of forking Steemit Inc out of the chain, well, it looks like @ned may have forked them. Maybe bent us over and forked all of us. There doesn't seem to be much open discussion from the witnesses at the moment and I am guessing they are as confused about what it all means as everyone else.

Communities / SMTs?

Well, since Steemit Inc are/were the main developers for both of these, it obviously brings their realization into question. What is a strange one is, TRON could run an SMT on the Steem blockchain if they wanted a new token, as that is what they were designed for, right? It will scale at least.

Dapps

As said, TRON doesn't need Steemit stake to attract Steem dApps, as they are independent, centralized and owned interfaces and experiences. All they really need to do is make some space and offer them an incentive to move on over. However, they don't even really need to do that either if they can develop interoperability between the blockchains so that they can service both/ many communities.

Community?

Generally, companies can buy other companies to get access to a user base, which is why Facebook bought WhatsApp for 19 billion dollars, but the Steemit community isn't very large in comparison to the purported 20 million in the TRON ecosystem, so it seems like a little bit of a waste of money.

However, I have always said that the community on Steem is the most valuable thing about the blockchain as, it is we who are the users that give it use case. Without users, not much of value happens here. But, buying stake (however large) doesn't mean the community come part and parcel with it - this isn't the Steem company, it is the Steem blockchain. The thing is, Steem doesn't need to fork to keep going at all, it just has to keep going as it is and as long as witnesses keep the chain running, it runs.

Confused?

Yeah, me too. But, as I have said often enough, dealing with uncertainty is part of the investment game and in uncertainty there is a lot of potential. I have no idea yet about token swaps and migrations and the like but, one thing is for certain, no one can buy the blockchain itself as, it isn't owned. I think that all in all, while it is going to create a lot of speculation, it seems that what TRON want is to build a partnership of sorts with their ecosystem and the Steem community and blockchain.

Perhaps we have something they need, perhaps they have something we need.

Opinions welcome.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

Onboarding

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Tron has very few users. The 20 million figure quoted is absolute bullshit. Check out stateofthedapps.com/rankings:

These are the only Tron apps listed:

image.png

Pitiful. At least someone is using Steem apps. Nobody uses Tron. It's all marketing, hype and money. I own Steem Power and thus a small degree of power over blockchain governance. If STEEM were a token on Tron, I'd have no power on blockchain governance. Nor would I have any Resource Credits.

That number probably comes from bittorrent users which doesn't mean much.

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Chip in... Chip in..... CHIP IN. CHIIIIIIIPPPPP INNNNNNN ;)

? was thinking of making a post with my thoughts about this whole or/deal.

I read that post you made earlier and if anyone sees this it is worth reading.

Just saying!

Yeah, a few things don't add up and, I don't see how they can force a token swap.

The entire 'token swap' sounds completely fishy and perhaps just a ploy to undermine the Steem economy but hey I am suspicious by nature so who knows what is really going on there.

If confusion was the goal the entire way this has been handled damn sure accomplished that goal.

Yeah the token swap does, but it is unclear what is meant by it at this point.

Yeah it is assuredly difficult to figure out given how little information there is to work with.

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"The thing is, Steem doesn't need to fork to keep going at all, it just has to keep going as it is and as long as witnesses keep the chain running, it runs."

Maybe. @steemit stake is substantial enough to control the witnesses, and if Tron has acquired @steemit's stake, which it appears it has, then Tron can replace extant witnesses with ones that support whatever Tron wants to do to the code.

In that event, for Steem to continue to operate as it heretofore has without changes to code Tron may seek, Steem will need to fork out @steemit stake, essentially becoming a new platform and token to enable legacy operations.

Thanks!

Not necessarily if stake decided to pile on some witnesses. There is 210 million staked Steem, and the 70mil is not enough. Though organizing that fast wouldn't likely happen as community or not, organization isn't great here :)

there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that enough vested SP could be organized (let alone which witnesses to support to be agreed on) to counteract it if Tron decided to use their stake to elect 30 puppet block producers. And once Tron did that, they could fork out all the other large steem holders if they wanted to. not saying that makes sense for them to do it, but everyone who is saying that Tron didn't buy Steem, and that the blockchain can't be bought/sold... that is wishful thinking IMO. Just because Steemit, Inc. didn't use their stake didn't mean that this wasn't a centralized project, and now that Tron owns that stake (and has already proven to act as a centralized entity), I just don't see how you can say that Tron didn't buy Steem the blockchain. They just did. They bought it.

This, unfortunately.

Yep, so, Steem will just get copied into something with a more marketable name perhaps :)

for the people who just want a social media network that they can blog on and earn crypto, Tron is actually probably a much better solution than Stinc. Tron has marketing and hype down, they are very good at that. That is what Steem and Stinc have never had really. The big losers are people who really cared about decentralization and censorship, and I don't know that for most people on the platform that honestly matters all that much. Of course the worrying thing is the "airdrop of new Steem token for existing Tron users" because it is hard to imagine that is going to lead to anything but a massive dump of the new steem token and loss of value.

"...decentralization and censorship..."

That's bread and butter to me. I hope that I am not alone, or even in a small minority in that regard, given our present straits.

"...airdrop of new Steem token for existing Tron users..."

In terms of decentralization and censorship resistance, I see that as one of the most hopeful possible benefits this sale could bring. An airdrop of 70M Steem eliminates that massive concentration of stake that threatens to centralize control of the witnesses.

That's the thing that gives me the most hope this won't just turn Steem into an ordinary highly content constrained Fakebook clone.

I hope they are ready to take a hit in their price. How much of their token would they give to Steem users? :D

I have estimated that 20% of the necessary stake is usually all that is required to elevate a witness to the top 20 in normal circumstances, because others will vote for them too. A third of extant stake can't simply overwhelm all opposition, but, as you point out, opposition won't be all there is.

Thanks!

In my latest post there is a link to an old post about reducing witness votes to 7, a change for just such an occasion.

Socks.

It is still stake based, so even with sock accounts it doesn't matter. It would if it was one vote an account though

Each sock would have the 7 votes, bypassing the restriction by employing the socks to split the VP amongst them.

Yes, but splitting the stake doesn't generate more stake, it dilutes the vote of each. Even with a massive stake like Steemit's, this would dilute it sufficiently that several of the large whales would be able to counter in some way.

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These are my first, so I very much appreciate the gesture, as well as the equity.



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This whole thing is so confusing it had a physical effect on me - I'm tired. A bit sleepy, even. Just like that. 😔

Yeah, I can't help with the confusion at this point, sorry.

Same.

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This has all the earmarks of a hostile takeover. Are SP hodlers just supposed to say sure, go ahead and swap my Steem for your shitcoin?

It’s early on and we certainly don’t know all the facts, but right now my gut does not feel good.

Yes, but .. how do you hostile takeover a blockchain? :D

Are SP hodlers just supposed to say sure, go ahead and swap my Steem for your shitcoin?

It would have to be opt in I am guessing, but I don't think that is quite the plan. But what do I know? :)

  ·  2 months ago (edited)

The way you do a hostile takeover is buy a controlling stake so that you can do whatever you want to the chain then put a gun to all stakeholders heads saying swap or die.

I have to assume that "Buying Steemit" is buying their stake, which means he can replace all witnesses if he wants.

Yes, but where is the gain?

Beyond gambling TRON doesn’t have any useful apps. Steem does, by adding STEEM Dapps under the umbrella of TRON Dapps you take these apps that in terms of functionality and usefulness are up there for blockain Dapps and now you have the marketing hype and money of TRON to develop them further. Unfortunately he doesn’t have much use for current Steem stakeholders so we get a shitty ultimatum.

But, getting the Dapps over doesn't require buying Steemit Inc

Steemit is the dapp with all the name recognition, plus buying Steemit gets you control over the entire chain. He now has the power to FORCE all Steem Dapps to Tron if he wants. It's a hostile takeover and Ned and any other owners willingly handed us over to Tron so they could exit and be done with it. That's what it looks like to me.

As far as I know, I don't think the Dapps can be forced over, but they can choose to migrate. Whether that is better for thm or not, who knows at this point. However, I don't think Steemit has enough recognition to warrant a hostile takeover like this.

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It's a token pumping opportunity disguised as a company sale IMO.

Will see, but I don't think it would cause a big enough pump to be worth selling 70 million steem for

Of course not. What changed hands was Steemit, Inc company stock. That transaction did not happen on any blockchain.

He means the pump from the hype on the exchanges, but it would never be large enough to dump 70 million on.

Absolutely not.

  ·  2 months ago Reveal Comment

dumping 70 mil is a lot, considering that a pump can be caused buying a few hundred K

  ·  2 months ago Reveal Comment

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The value is going up but not sure what Justin wants. I read the medium post.
Justin bought steemit inc.
It is irrelevant knowing steem is decentralized.
I am thinking Justin will try to elude us to come over his new social media, hoping steem blockchain to go hiatus

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Few months back when I saw the news about tron buying steemit I thought it was a rumour.
Like you said steemit is about the community and I guess that's what tron needs. But why the token exchange? Is something I am yet to understand

Indeed there are many uncertainties we just got to watch and see them all

The token exchange makes no sense in any way really.

They just want user base on Tron to be up so they can catch ETH and say they are DApp king. So a claytons two way swap where transactions are duplicated on Tron would help them with listed activity level. Ie if there is a new parent token and they can consolidate all activity below it up to that it looks like more people using TRX.

They only have to take steem over; and when you stake steem on tron it gets matched with Steempower on the steem blockchain. Steem blockchain runs on Steempower not steem.

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It makes sense for Tron to create a token on their network that represents Steem. Tron's inflation economics make no sense and Steem is superior. If they buy a huge chunk of Steemit Inc's stake and airdrop it onto TRX holders it could be very interesting.

Communities / SMTs?
Well, since Steemit Inc are/were the main developers for both of these, it obviously brings their realization into question.

It would also be really good if Justin hired his own small team of programmers to learn the Steem ecosystem. He certainly has the money for it.

I guess we'll see how it turns out? Could turn out fine or be really ugly... reminds me of HF21.

I guess we'll see how it turns out? Could turn out fine or be really ugly... reminds me of HF21.

Well, I don't seem to be going anywhere as I am too old ;D so, we'll see!

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They could always have an incentivized token swap and reward in bonus TRX along with your new steem or something similar. Time will tell but Justin is not stupid; and he knows how to play to a crowd (who often act like sheep with the right incentives).

yep, there are many ways to do this without having to buy Steemit, which makes it strange.

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lol



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Yeah. Not really sure how this is all going to pan out.

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Me either, but it makes for some exciting times.

I have always said, If I knew I was going to commit suicide, it would be on a shit-tonne of party drugs :)

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I guess we are in the "wait and see" mode. maybe some answers tomorrow, but most of the times when Ned did do videos or spoke, no real answers were forthcoming. Imagine this could be the digital Saint Valentine's Day Massacre. Well speculation is bound to be rampant, and is sure to lead to some entertaining reading. Maybe by Monday we will know more, then again, maybe not. After all one of the last things Ned posted was about a new project he was working on, and nothing hardly at all since then.

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Your are right, and I still keep forgetting them.
!ENGAGE 30 have a few back just in case. LoL.



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Yep, it is the way of the investment life. Be prepared to lose it all.

If the witnesses do not want to end steem block chain, it will continue I think. @ned and Tron can fork the block chain, but the original will continue I think. Steemit is not the only development team on the block chain, so development can continue with out steemit. Steemit front end may go away as a method of accessing the chain, but there are other access points.

One good thing that may come out of it is the death of the 15SP delegated down vote army. No steemit.inc no @steem account? Right?

Right now I really don't see much changing, there is always going to be change, always going to be someone that wants what others have, and the corporate machine will continue. It seems a lot of people are mis-trusting of the guy behind Tron, but Tron has been around for a while, samsung is still around, and I forget the other thing people have mentioned. But I think they are all still around.

It will be an interesting thing to see if the Block Chains of Tron and Steem are actually able to merge. Perhaps this is all just a small test case, to learn how to do it. There are a lot of block chains out in the world, and some pretty big names owning or behind some, such as IBM. IBM has their own block chain.

Lol, yeah, it is going to be a bit weird with the new signups I guess :D

This is all going to make for some fun reading and commenting. It is going to be a great weekend I think. I wonder how many days Sun and Ned will be able to drag all the drama out.

Hopefully for many.



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And the price keeps going up...

This is either going to be the smartest thing ever happened or the reason ned's name will live in history as the the biggest idiot of all times

the hype is real.

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lol hahaha. Thanks



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Interesting times... I guess my time off is over as plenty of diligence will be needed to see how us stakeholders proceed. My early thoughts are that there must be an incentive to current stakeholders to move and swap to a new blockchain which may be dilutive to our stakes. In the finance world, majority stakes have a premium.

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Yeah, keep me posted as it is a little bit up in the air at the moment. There must be an incentive for some people at least, whether it is the user base, who knows.

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“However, I have always said that the community on Steem is the most valuable thing about the blockchain as, it is we who are the users that give it use case. “

I think this is the key. It is actually exactly what I was thinking must be one of the main goals here. It’s a big difference between just numbers and true numbers. Maybe we are not so many on the Steem blockchain, but we are real people, we are devoted, we know about blockchain technology, we breath decentralized technology. Like you say the value is within the community, and our ability to influence in the crypto sphere

The steem chain doesn't need to grind to a halt over this, but it is likely going to go through a bit of volatility.

I honestly think this might be a good thing. Steemit inc left a lot to be desired. Sure things seemed to be improving, but it always seemed they one would end up disappointed when relying on them

Don't know. However, there is a lot of possibility int he uncertainty and this is where legends can be made :)

You’re definitely right my friend !

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