Comers and goers

in OCD2 months ago

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... come again.
Snatch

I think that this is an interesting point to explore today:

So many users from 1-2 years ago have disappeared. Was it because of entitlement and not being satisfied by what they could get out of it? Or they just got tired of chasing the moon? Or they got bored. A good advice a friend once gave me about Hive was don't focus on numbers and you will be happy. I mean, sure, some people find it exciting, game, but also isn't that very tiring? Constant rat race?
@m31

Why do people leave Hive? I think that it is likely these reasons and more and in my reply to M,

Not focusing on numbers is a good approach for most, though some are inspired by the numbers too - depends on the person. I think that "depends on the person" is why most people leave - they have personal expectations about what this place is and what it can do for them and ultimately, the person will be disappointed when it is not what they expected it to be.

Expectation is a precursor of entitlement, as one builds and attaches oneself to what is expected, then believes that it is owed in some way and we get disappointed when what is delivered is not what we expected. Of course it is possible to be pleasantly surprised from time to time also.

But, we all have personal preferences, needs and wants. We all live in different circumstances, have variation in skill and will, and we all have a range of personalities and these are not static, they change with experience and time and are affected by our conditions. A sunny disposition is not always so, a negative outlook can turn positive - a bad mood doesn't last, neither does a good one.

I have mentioned for years now that Hive is open for anyone, but is not suitable for everyone. What I mean by this is that while anyone can join, it is not the kind of place that is going to fit all of the needs of those who join - it is essentially a startup business in a startup industry and that is an environment very few are suited for, which is why there are far more employees than businesses. Not everyone has an investor mindset, not everyone is willing to work for free, not everyone is able to look long.

There are many reasons for this. For example, to invest capital, a person has to have available capital to invest. If there is no extra at the end of the month to put into an investment, it isn't possible. Then, even if it is invested, if it isn't invested to some point of maturity and is constantly being pulled out of the investment to pay for life, it isn't going to build into something greater than it was. Investment growth requires some period of time in order for that growth to happen, just like a child is not born an adult, complete with adult experiences. Living a life is an investment too.

But, there are other factors other than the financial, for example, personality. While investment mindset is one point, personality in general has a very wide amount of variation, with things like ability to cope under pressure, level of patience and persistence and emotional response all come into play. Some people survive under pressure, some people thrive - some die.

Because anyone can join Hive but it isn't set up to cater for the entire range of personalities, there is going to be a greater degree of churn than if their was a higher degree of selection bias.

Perhaps to illustrate this, we could look at an education path like that of becoming a doctor. While everyone might want the salary of a doctor, if the degree was open and they let anyone in, how many would actually have the skills, mentality and ability to deal with the study and practical requirements to make it through? Sure, anyone could try, but you probably still want there to be a level of learning accomplishment before a doctor operates on you or someone you love.

Hive fortunately isn't a degree program though, it is a heavily upgraded social media that integrates an open economy into the mix. An open economy doesn't mean everyone will earn, but it does give the opportunity for anyone to earn. Whereas the medical degree requires prerequisites before admittance, Hive has no such gateway other than having an internet connection - but there is probably still some kind of selection bias - as Hive has the potential to be paid for participation - which means that many of the people who join, want to be paid.

But, wanting to be paid and doing something that gets paid are two different things. For example, a job comes with a set of tasks and an employee fulfills those tasks to get paid. An entrepreneur sets their own tasks and may or may not get paid, based on a number of factors. Either way, tasks need to be done in order to get some kind of reward for them and, no matter how important the tasks are to an individual, it doesn't mean that those tasks will get paid by others.

So, because people come in with a preconceived idea of Hive and their expectations of results without necessarily considering their own place in the ecosystem and the tasks that might be required to reach their results, there is going to be a lot of disappointment. Factor this in with things like differences in personalities, willingness to adjust approaches, skillsets and emotional positions, and it is pretty obvious why a lot of people come and go - also why a lot of people will come again.

As I see it, Hive is not ready for all kinds of people, but all kinds of people are also not ready for Hive. The world is a mess and it is us who create this world, which means, we are messy and many are struggling in multiple ways simultaneously and have a lack of all kinds of resources. While I believe that taking responsibility and agency to own one's own existence is important, not everyone is in the same mind and there are many who will seemingly always be the victims of life itself, as if they have no control over their direction. People are always going to be critical when their expectations are left unmet and not everyone will be willing to consider their role or change their approach to better suit the environment.

The saying is that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", but Hive is a decentralized city that can be expanded in many ways. If what one wants to do can't be done at present, most leave, whereas some try to build a new suburb. Participation in the Hive environment is voluntary at every level, no one has to stay, no one has to leave either - it is a decision. Everyone will justify the decisions they make differently and other people will judge them favorably or unfavorably for it, but it is the individual who has to live with their existence.

I think that many of the people who have left over the years will come back once the platform is more aligned with what they want from it - often this is tied to price, but it could be that if it picks up in social popularity, they will come here as they have to so many other platforms over the last 20 years.

It could also be that in time, something in their own life clicks and what wasn't attractive on Hive before becomes compelling and value adding. People come and go from Hive for many reasons, just like people buy some products over others and then move on, change their diets, get new haircuts and buy a different style of shoes - it is about consumption and reward on that consumption and what people value is unique to them.

Remember though - people also wear clothes that don't suit them, eat food that is bad for them and buy products that are a waste of money. Making our own decisions doesn't mean they are good decisions for us.

Some people like myself might be consistent in participation, but change my approach and thinking multiple times across the years - other people might consistently try the same thing over and over even if it doesn't get them the results, some might try something once and then make a decision that it is not a space for them - and they are right. It isn't a space for them if they decide it isn't - but it doesn't mean it isn't a space for others now, and it doesn't mean that at some point in the future, it could be the perfect space for them to be a part of.

We are all at different stages and positions of life and therefore, it is up to us to make the decisions on what is best for who we think we are - and live with the consequences of being wrong - or right - as the case may be.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

Sort:  

Hive reminds me a little bit about my twitter experience. When I discovered the service back in April 2007, most of my friends didn't see the point of it.
I was interested in the technology, didn't really know how I would use it but something inside told me I had to try it and get involved in the usage. Over time, the service has turned into a global tool and no one discusses its benefits (except for centralization 🙂)

Hive is similar, it is new, there are many usages we still have to discover and many people still have to see the value of decentralization, but I am sure, little by little more and more users will join and will find the best way to use the tool for their interests. More and more dApps will appear, some for gaming, others for voting and governance and others just to make life easier for the publisher as @dapplr

I was interested in the technology, didn't really know how I would use it but something inside told me I had to try it and get involved in the usage.

Are you Swedish? :D

but I am sure, little by little more and more users will join and will find the best way to use the tool for their interests.

What I like about Hive is that people can not quite find what they are looking for here - and then get it built to fit. It is a pretty awesome experience if you consider how much freedom there is in active hands.

!ENGAGE 15

I'm Spaniard 😂

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

I responded to @m31 over on the other post with some of the reasons I found myself spending less and less time on Steem, and eventually went away entirely. But one of the points I didn't mention was engagement, or lack thereof.

We all like to get those votes and that payout after 7 days, but when all of my votes were autovotes and I had few or even no comments on my post, it was disheartening. I wanted my posts to spark a conversation or get a reaction, and that was getting smaller and smaller. That probably has to do with a lot of the people who were following me at the time disappearing as the Steem price decreased.

I have tried to onboard a few people over the course of my three years on the platform, and not a one of them has stuck. I think the Steem splash page with the promise of earnings for posting your blog had a big part of that. People come, don't earn anything right away, and leave. Admittedly, I have not looked at the Hive landing page for new users, if such a thing exists. But if it still promises earnings, I think it is doing more harm than good.

I don't think anyone I know would refer to me as a hustler. I'm primarily lazy when given the opportunity, so my best case scenario is probably the vast Hive middle class. Doing okay, but not seeing the level of success that people who are really putting their heart and soul into the project will find. But I do like to share my thoughts on things, as long as my post is getting seen and read, but that wasn't happening. As I build my way back in to the Hive ecosystem, I have to work on rebuilding my audience. Communities should be helpful with that as I learn how to use them.

Reading through your last few posts has actually been pretty encouraging to me. I appreciate the ideas you are putting out there, thank you for that. I doubt I will go all in on Hive anytime soon, my daily life has too much busyness in it to be that invested, but I want to be a part of the community again, and that is something I haven't felt in a long time.

We all like to get those votes and that payout after 7 days, but when all of my votes were autovotes and I had few or even no comments on my post, it was disheartening.

I can understand this completely, though I am "fortunate" as I tend to get decent engagement most of the time. But I don't think it is so much luck, than the effort to engage heavily for years.

I wanted my posts to spark a conversation or get a reaction, and that was getting smaller and smaller. That probably has to do with a lot of the people who were following me at the time disappearing as the Steem price decreased.

I think that is the reason - but that can change again too. At some point in the future if Hive climbs much higher and people are earning relatively well, the engagement returns, even from those not looking to earn. It becomes self-perpetuating, much like the other social medias.

I think the focus on earnings will change over time, but remember that when Steem started, there wasn't much else out there like it and, it was built to attract the crypto people first, because that was who built it and joined. crypto people focus on money.

As I build my way back in to the Hive ecosystem, I have to work on rebuilding my audience. Communities should be helpful with that as I learn how to use them.

Communities should help and there are some really popular ones to post in, but it still takes engaging with others to attract an audience.Many people let the engagement side slide, and then wonder where the different types of support are.

but I want to be a part of the community again, and that is something I haven't felt in a long time.

I think this is a good sign for things to come :)

!ENGAGE 40

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

Loading...

I would suspect... although there's no way to develop an actual metric to measure it... that the majority of people who used to be here and then left were also people whose primary motivation for being here was "be on Steemit/Steem/Hive and make money!"

I'm still here, but I never came here to "make money." In fact, it was a total surprise to me when I actually did make a few dollars. My "expectation" was to have a secure and ongoing place to park my content... saying that as someone whose journey of creating web content has included close to 50 venues where there was suddenly a blank page where there used to be content, when the doors were suddenly shut.

So my primary "value" here is continuity. That's not most people's value.

My secondary value is using this (hopefully) as a sort of very long term savings account that just slowly builds and is otherwise left alone. If we get lucky, maybe the Hive token will rise in value. Who knows. Don't have any more or less faith in that than I would have if investing in the stock of a company I happen to like. Hopes, perhaps, but no expectations.

While there are exceptions, I would suspect the same.

Continuity and content protection is part of my use case too, as I don't think I a organize enough to keep all of this safe myself :)

The savings account is a big part of it also, as I would like to one day benefit financially from it, since it is a core part of building an economy.

I would also add that for me, an attractive part of the system is being able to help others in ways I couldn't otherwise. Depending on the token value at the time, I have either helped people in various ways in the many thousand or the hundreds of thousands. That is cool.

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

one builds and attaches oneself to what is expected, then believes that it is owed in some way

I can't understand this.

I think on at least a subconscious level I tell stories for similar reasons to you writing these essays (to try to understand/explore something), but while I can write characters that do the things I don't understand (sometimes even convincingly) I find I still don't understand XD

Do you mean you don't understand the clumsy sentence? :D

I like the idea of developing understanding through character development - it is kind of like role playing :P

Understood the sentence fine, don't understand the attitude XD

Kind of XD

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

There was something particularly attractive when joining this platform. But it doesn't matter right now. Numbers are important, yes. But of course in some cases. Likes are more important to me than to make money. I will continue to share. I'm seeing great work here. And great skills. This motivates me. I try to cook better after joining here. I try to take better photos. For example i have a new hobby. I am trying to paint with watercolors. All thanks to this platform.

It is pretty cool to create something to share it - especially when creating something one enjoys doing. I think it is great that many of us explore new hobbies through our Hive journey. Good luck with the watercolours!

Thank you so much! :)

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

I maintain my 'follow' list rather carefully. I am at 302 right this minute and at least 2/3 of that list is no longer active. Why not prune them? Because those specific people really made an impact with me and I want to KNOW if even one of them comes back.

I'm guessing the reasons given for leaving are as varied as the people themselves. Some got tired, some didn't make enough money or influence fast enough, who knows?

I'd really like to see a slow, steady growth rate right now. More people coming and realizing the potential of this space than those that are leaving. It's there, and we both know it, but not many people have the patience to play the long game that it will take to make Hive really viable.

Because those specific people really made an impact with me and I want to KNOW if even one of them comes back.

I have people like this in my list too and other the ones who have passed on, I think that most will come back eventually.

More people coming and realizing the potential of this space than those that are leaving.

Yes, the potential is there, but I think that the slow growth will come as the platform matures, because it will realign the selection bias for more than those who are looking to get rich quick or even are just against centralized authority. As it evolves, the normies pick it up.

Are you implying that I might not be normal? Or a normie? You aren't the first 😂

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

man i joined steemit / hive in 2017 back then I didn't take it seriously and my friend how started after me get lots of community and after he tells me in 2020 3 years letter I say I messed the golden time to Jon but it's not too late so I starter using hive

I hope you guys sport me @attajuttjj and I promise I won't look at number but the community that supports me

sadness-inside-out-today-main-tease-191018_010305cfdd8f7dab2c6547daadfcfce6.fit-760w.jpg

People miss opportunities every day here and everywhere else - the best way to get support is to give support, be part of the community.

give and get that true

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

Hive is a new platform, still in the making. It is normal that some people have entered only for the economic benefits and not get them, because they will be disappointed. On the other hand, there will be other people who will see this platform as a showcase to expose what they do, to exchange ideas, to project their opinion. Both views are valid and perhaps some people will be able to achieve their goals. For example, I have seen publications by Venezuelans who say that thanks to Hive they have been able to buy food, cell phones, have a better life. But I have seen others who have not done well, but still do an excellent job. I think this can't be seen as a sprint, but as an endurance race, and the one who gets tired loses. Greetings, @tarazkp

Both views are valid and perhaps some people will be able to achieve their goals.

Yes, I think both are valid but I also think that more people could invest a bit more of their time and money in if they chose. I find it interesting that a pair of sneakers in some parts of the world are 1000 HIVE, yet people from those parts of the world don't have close to that in their wallet.

There is a large range of characters here and over the years I have seen many who could have done well, but instead did what they wanted. The problem was, they wanted the results of doing well.

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

I find Hive to be an extention of real life in regards to human behaviour. Most people have expectations. Few have build up character and endurance to go with dignity through highs and lows and stand tall and loyal. People give up on people after decades, after sacrifices, after hardships. We should not be surprised that they ditch a platform. Some people have it, some do not. But it can always be improved.

I believe in the power of people to change themselves if they trully want it. People have this amazing capacity of their brain to change their behaviour depending on what they think.

There is a shoe for every foot. And opportunies are everywhere. Most diamonds are in their rough state until a good eye sees the value.

You know, casting pearls in front of swine has been happening since ages. And it will continue. It is common nature. But there will always be a bunch of people who will stay and a bunch of people who will walk away. You can't motivate people who won't motivate themselves, it never works. People have to feel and see value for themselves in anything in order to commit long term. It is more a question of human nature rather than about the platform itself. There will always be many different platforms, the human nature is the same. At its core. The question is when will people change? Answer :when they will trully want to.

We should not be surprised that they ditch a platform.

No we shouldn't. It doesn't surprise me, but I still wonder what people get out of most of the other platforms, other than emotional narcotics.

People have this amazing capacity of their brain to change their behaviour depending on what they think.

For better or worse, yet most people allow the defaults and emotions decide the direction.

The question is when will people change? Answer :when they will trully want to.

People should look in the mirror and consider this.

Getting rid of any addiction takes time and first you have to admit you have a problem. Those who are on emotional narcotics see that as normal, because everyone else is doing it. Collective brain numbness taken at high levels of inner void. The brain is fed with junk stimulus, visual, audio, while the heart is empty. Quite disturbing emotionally.

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

We are all at different stages and positions of life and therefore, it is up to us to make the decisions on what is best for who we think we are - and live with the consequences of being wrong - or right - as the case may be.

It's true but not entirely in my opinion.
There will be always something in between.
Age, society, company, a boy, a girl, a tragedy.
We have to be strong but not always we are in power, we are in control.
Maybe only when we accept this fact we could be really in control.

Great post.

There are three core areas, the things we can control, the things we can influence, the things we have no control over. We can decide everything, but we can make our decisions at some level.

You are right, we have to accept some things are outside our control, and then work with what we've got. Many tend to focus on what we can't affect and avoid what we can.

I agree.
Someone more wise than me says:

"Enjoy what you can manage. Focus on it."

Big truth

!ENGAGE 15

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

I think as things stand currently, Hive is harvesting a special kind of people.
Those that understand the long run and have been here consistently over time have the right mindsets.
Perseverence and persistence are sadly becoming endangered habits and of course quick money will always demoralise the quick fixers, if they cannot access it immediately with as little effort as possilble.
Such is life!