Wikipedia Co-Founder Larry Sanger Creates A Forum To Decentralize Social Media - Thinks HIVE (Blockchain) is Crap

in LeoFinance2 months ago (edited)

There is such a things as the intellectual idiot. There is the learned that is not wise. This is common. There are the other ones who have many great past results to show, yet turns out to be completely ignorant/biased/misguided when it comes to the new things that can truly change the world.

For those who don't know, Lawrence Mark Sanger is one of the co-founders of the Internet encyclopedia Wikipedia. This status has been contested by Jimmy Wales. But at least we can be sure that he played an important part in creating Wikipedia.

Does Anybody Remember These Reactions from Steve Ballmer (Former CEO of Microsoft)


I think what we have here is something very similar. To provide you with a better context I will link the forum that was created.

https://larrysanger.org/community


Any sensible person would consider blockchain or some other Decentralized Ledger Technology such as DAG or Hashgraph will be the perfect solution for this. But some people can be blinded by their own past achievements and scoff at the new developments like Nokia, Yahoo!, Steve Ballmer or Blockbuster did.

He Was Originally Willing To Check It Out

Reply From The Next Day

He Even Rejects Sia & Handy

I personally don't know much about https://github.com/HandyMiner Therefor I will refrain from saying anything about it. You can check out this article abot the project. On the other hand I can say that https://sia.tech is one of the best cryptocurrency projects that will help to create a more decentralized world.I have been a fan of the project since 2017 and I love how far the project has come.

As a storage solution, DAPPs based on SIA have completely changed the game when it comes to pricing. I doubt Larry Sanger will ever achieve something similar in his own despite all the talk about "Decentralizers".

Arrogance and Disconnect From Real World Users and Business

If you have used @dbuzz and experienced true decentralized microblogging, you should understand how superior of an option it is compared to the techno-ideologybabble Larry Sanger is spewing.



Content Discovery; Not Treated As A Priority

Anybody who has tried to find their own old work even with https://www.hivesearcher.com knows how difficult of a job finding content is. A person who cannot understand these basic practical things is fit to be called ignorant and out of touch with reality.

More From The Personal Blog

Some startups aren’t even seriously trying to be a good decentralized, free speech social network. A lot of blockchain “social media” projects are sold as “decentralized” (because they’re on a blockchain! That makes them decentralized, man!), but they aren’t really decentralized, because a few people are in control of the chain, there’s one client (a website and/or app), and basically it works like a regular website…built on a blockchain. Who cares? Minds.com is probably the closest we have to a fairly successful and growing site that is committed to free speech and open source, which does use blockchain; but I don’t think it’s quite fully decentralized yet.
Source: https://larrysanger.org/2021/01/what-it-means-to-decentralize-social-media

On top of being unaware of the modern technological developments in the decentralized social media space, Larry Sanger overrates Minds.com and goes to state the following:

Comment below if you even have even personally met 10 people with a WordPress blog. https://wordpress.org/download/counter shows that WordPress 5.6 has been downloaded 14,225,384 times. That is less than 1 in 500 people. Downloads doesn't perfectly correlate with the amount of people who have WordPress blogs. But we can at least say 99% of the world don't have WordPress blogs.

There is No Decentralization When 99% is Excluded

This is a lesson for all of us to remember. It is easy to get tunnel vision and get disconnected from reality. When you are doing so well in a specific niche it is easy to think that you know everything. yet in reality you could be a mere pipe dreamer. You are never going to change the world by getting 0.2% of the population involved in your "decentralized" social media.

HIVE DAPPs have taken necessary steps to make onboarding easier. @khaleelkazi and @leofinance team has done a great job with their Lite accounts. @yabapmatt @aggroed and @splinterlands team have done an equally amazing job creating worlds #1 blockchain game. I'm seeing many great things coming from @threespeak and @dbuzz has become "The Gateway Social Media DAPP" IMHO.

We have a long road ahead of us. We have a lot of onboarding to do. We have lot of changes to make in the current social media climate. We have no real competitors as a community and the world doesn't have many other alternatives apart from us. Even @dan recently stepped down from his position preserving his principles under various pressures EOS was facing when it comes to proper decentralization.

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Reading through all the details and all the inputs provided to him, I think, he just wants to promote something, where he alone will have more control :)

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Maybe he just want to do a lot of talking and feel good about himself. It's easy to talk the talk. Building and sustaining a decentralized community and getting people onboard is a near impossible job. If you are more interested in corruption that has been going around Wikipedia, read this.

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Why read in Wikipedia when my own country is full of it 😀

It is hard to find any country that is full with corruption. That is what happen when you move away from free markets and voluntary actions and move towards mob rule and free stuff.

Exactly this !ENGAGE 10

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What an asshole, his only argument is that everything it's controlled by whales. Also Wikipedia is controlled by those with more reputation. And he hasn't asked himself how many time our whales would control this blockchain if a million users would come here suddently?.

The distribution of Hive can change the inneficience of the web 2.0 is much harder to change than that.

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This man spent the whole time describing Hive and then whenever he's told to check it out, the guy looks the other way.
I run into people like this guy on a daily. Something as easy as creating an account turns into a tedious conversation.
The recent episode today said that Hive is a place for terrorist because I said that nobody gets censored.
I've come to terms that there are difficult people in this world. People that just want to argue and chat shit without getting the facts right.

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Yes! Some people rather emote their opinion rather than discuss it.

Look at the bright side. If the idiots who think free speech ad encryption is a terrorist tool, what kind of content do you think will get posted on HIVE. HIVE is destined to go up in value. I wouldn't mind these ignorant people missing out on those rewards. That is why I don't try too hard to convert people into HIVE. I look for those who are already looking for something like HIVE.

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It's as easy as that tbh. I don't see why I have to convince someone to key into an opportunity.

Hive Blog is a threat to their monopoly.

Very true 👌👌👌👌👌😇

You put this together real nice, congratulations on all the engagement it attracted.

I think this is the 2nd highest engagement I have ever received. #1 was thanks to @crypto.piotr some time ago sharing one of my posts.

Wow. All this coming from a guy who manages a website that begs for donations, and supports "fact checked" information run by a select group of nazis. The guy is completely inept as far as approachable and decentralized information sharing goes. He seems to operate on the belief that all blockchains are unreliable and too hard for most people to adopt, likely due to market risk and tax regulations.

Is wordpress fully open source? I'm pretty sure the developers could royally mess up people's websites running their old code if they wanted to.

WordPress is open source. But the user base is very small (I mean how many of your friends have their personal website. 39% of the top 10 million websites use WordPress). Cryptocurrency can be adopted by many more people. Take Brave Browser for an example. Each browser is its own cryptocurrency wallet.

Worst part is that with the involvement of money, developers can seriously focus on contributing without conflicts of interest and without having to worry about their finances. This is one of the greatest strengths of cryptocurrency compared to your typical open source projects that rarely get enough attention.

I think when people hear decentralized they expect some sort of utopia where everyone is equal. That does not exist. Someone or group in the end will have its way when they see fit. What hive can become however is what Mr. Sanger seeks. Whereby the creation of content and its distribution is controlled by those who care to put in the effort and time. In time they earn their place in hive by how much they hold in hive power. Grow their influence to have greater power to distribute their content to others. There are currently not enough whales to fish the best contents in hive but a trickle down effect in hive power day by day will allow the power to be distributed. Those who gain more HP will have more say in visibility of content since top upvotes brings those content to the front trending page. All in all it’s decentralized because people get to buy or earn their way to be whales. We can’t do that on Wikipedia. Content is reviewed by a few that were hand pick. That sounds very bias and not the type of approach to can reach decentralization.

In short hive on the surface may not appear to be great when it comes to decentralized platform but as time passes and more users get influence the platform will show its true shining colors. Thanks.

Well said! You didn't leave anything for me to add. You can earn your place on HIVE. If you missed the best times of HIVE, there are projects like @leofinance where you can start earning big. There are many who make more in LEO than in HIVE. With more communities being built, it is going to be easier and easier to earn yourself a place even in a small community where you engage and contribute to.

Wow, when I reply him on Twitter I didn't know he was the co-founder of Wikipedia.

When he reply me I didn't expect the reaction of a lot of Hive accounts, such as 3speak and others. I think AusbitBank witness likes my reply.

Minds.com is probably the closest we have to a fairly successful and growing site that is committed to free speech and open source, which does use blockchain; but I don’t think it’s quite fully decentralized yet.

When I read that in his page, I inmediately knew that he don't know the hole picture.

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He certainly lacks the understanding. That much is very clear. I don't even think of Minds as a proper blockhcain social media. I would rather use Steemit.

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We have a lot of things that we need to deal with and take care of. and public image is definitely forefront of that a lot of people do not understand what's going on how this platform works and then also the behavior of our users....

Yep that's right the behavior of our users.

but eventually if we get those things figured out we could take care of a lot of stuff

These days people are not very willing to read. Readers have enough content in the FAQ alone. What we need is great high production quality videos.

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I can't wait I've got a drone and that's going to be a lot of fun too get to work with more.

Weather permitting of course.

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Answer lies here:
"There are lot of rich people ready to shell out good money for that"

He is not looking for decentralization but looking for rich people who can "shell out" money in his so called decentralized projects.

If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would say he is living in some fairly tale land where some rich guys shelling out some money will solve all the problems and it will solve all the problems. Pavel Durov did this with Telegram. But that was an ultra rare case and he himself benefited a lot from creation of Telegram because he had means of communication that couldn't be monitored by the Russian government. In a way he was a Snowden Lite with a 9 figure net worth.

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i think no matter what they told him not only for hive but for everything he will stay with what he believes. He is that type of guy, maybe he was different a couple of years ago but who knows.

I suspect the same.

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Maybe he has the CIA fist so far up his arse from mind control operation wikipedia that he can't think straight...

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 2 months ago 

Another one of those "I want to reinvent the wheel" type of guys.

When he said "stop shilling Hive" you could feel how he is annoyed by the fact that Hive has achieved already quite a lot he is thinking about. But of course his ego doesn´t allow him to admit this. What a loser!

I have seen the tendency among smart people who aren't rich or doesn't want money crave for power and prestige. He knows that he is not going to be a leader in HIVE if he just start out now. Leadership positions on HIVE has to be earned. People like @khaleelkazi @crypto.piotr and @blocktrades earned it over time.

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Yes ... it must to be earn out 👌👌👌👌👌👌

Scalability with blockchains are major problems. I don't realistically see a path of mass adoption without major changes to the protocol to support long term scalability.

He does have a point when he says the platform is controlled by Whales - the DAO is pretty much entirely controlled by two people.

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Well he has valid points, but there is always some drawback to any structure right?

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There's downsides to everything - Hive's main problem could be with visibility - that's probably why he wants ownership over the url and the ability to change it.

I'm no coder but it can't be that hard for Google to penalise ALL posts starting with <hive.blog> or <leo.finance> or <peakd.com> and send them to page 100.

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Larry sounds like some people I work with. A solution is staring you right in the face and you refuse to even check it out.

Whales control, but the same is true with everyone else. The people Larry talks about, those with deep pockets who can bring the infrastructure aren't going to give their money away for free. They are going to want some control of it. It may not be entirely moral, but it is certainly logical at least. Anyone who invests their money or time into something will want some form of control.

And WordPress? I haven't downloaded the software and I don't plan to either. Everything I do, even my own job, functions with cloud-based apps. I could be on my phone in a meeting with others around the country.

I could see a benefit to Word Press if I worked exclusively from home, but I can't comment any further than that as I turned away from it a long time ago.

Fantastic article, by the way.

Anyone who invests their money or time into something will want some form of control.

When they have control but not money, they may want to sell control for money. It is much like politics and bureaucracy or tried and tested communism where bribery reigns supreme. pWikipedia has been heavily compromised because of this already.](https://leofinance.io/@vimukthi/wikipedia-is-corrupt-and-its-integrity-is-for-sale-these-are-your-blockchain-alternatives)

And WordPress? I haven't downloaded the software and I don't plan to either. Everything I do, even my own job, functions with cloud-based apps. I could be on my phone in a meeting with others around the country.

Cloud is going to be more and more of a thing in the future. What we need to focus on is creating decentralized cloud services. These are few interesting solutions I have come across.

https://sonm.com
https://iex.ec
https://dfinity.org
https://solana.com
https://www.ankr.com
https://ethernity.cloud
http://deepcloudai.com

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That's not an issue. Any website could pull content from the Hive blockchain and post it there using a browser extension tailored to that website.

See, the problem with this guy is that he does not realize the blockchain is different from the front ends. That's why he wrote stuff like the claim that "typically" blockchain-based social media platforms are just one client and all centralized.

When it comes to how Hive is controlled by whales, then he's right but only about the money. Content-wise, removing anything from the chain would require a hardfork and a supermajority (17/20) of the consensus witnesses agreeing.

Looks like I started what he wants to do juat last week. With #hive. See @hive-101011

I joined your community as the 4th member.
Best of Luck!

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You are welcome!

You are indeed welcome! This is decentral as decentral can be: Lots of communities! No heavyweight. !ENGAGE 10 !WINE

Thanks for the WINE Tokens!

Well, I hope you enjoy them as well as the !ENGAGE 10 token I spread. !WINE


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He talks as if he had a lot of experience with blockchain projects like hive.... of course , it’s been decades it exists, just like his shiny empty head. “typically fail”... give me a break!!!! We are pioneering this sh*t stupid asshole.

It is sad to see someone like him being so disconnected and out of touch with reality. I don't want to go to personal attacks. But he is quite stuck in his own bubble and not doing himself or the world any favors by the ignorant statements he is spreading.

By the way he tweets he certainly sounds like a stubborn idiot

Now he is actually shilling Minds.com on Twitter. I'm serious:
https://www.minds.com/lsanger

At least he does support many Libertarian principles. I can at least respect him for that.

This baldhead is a joke. Has no idea what’s he’s talking about when it comes to hive. We are gonna be laughing hard at him very soon, and he’ll enter history as another disbeliever, just like Ballmer. that’s all. .
Hive is a website, according to him xD

And yes, careful with whales, specially these highly invested on their own lies. remember Wikipedia tried to kill bitcoin and now they accept donations in btc..... he will bow, I guarantee.

I didn't know about Wikipedia trying to kill Bitcoin. I have seen a lot of arrogant behavior from many involved in technology. If they don't like something they will do their best to tarnish its name. Wikipedia has continuously managed to be a very outdated and even inaccurate (mostly due to being outdated) resource when it comes to cryptocurrency in my experience. i don't even bother reading Wikipedia for cryptocurrency related things.

9 out of 10 Wikipedia health articles are inaccurate:
https://time.com/118904/study-dont-trust-wikipedia-when-it-comes-to-your-health

It’s time for him to retire. Most people get lazy when they get rich like him. He’s just another example. As uncle Steve used to say:
-stay foolish, stay HUNGRY.

Few sources put his net worth at $650,000. That is not much in the technology world. What Larry Sanger
has is a very high reputation by being involved in one of the biggest projects on the internet. He is missing a chance get a 100,000% gains with HIVE (which would mean a HIVE marketcap above $40 Billion USD - a realistic estimate).

I think this man just want sell somethibg 🤣🤣🤣

Hive is the best thing out there, and lot not like it that we maid it to be best... and we not go stop we go get what we want... and it is freedom, and possess your own information.

He doesn't seem to be going after money as a primary objective. I think he is just being an intellectual idiot.

Intellectual idiot... it always sooner or later wants mass control... and going there where more money is given. :)))

Look at the bright side. He is not going to be earning any stake in HIVE any soon. He is shilling Minds.com on Twitter now.

We see :)) but I not trust this man ... 1001% :)))

Did someone proposed him the Fediverse and Mastodon? Is not decentralized but is the way he is asking, owning the content but when you go offline so the content.

He is making it a huge deal and giving the looks he's worried about decentralization and censorship and your digital wellbeing, but, I think he is not. I think is making a huge deal because he wants to partner with someone that practically will say: "hey I got this idea of decentralization, build that for me", maybe I am wrong, but that kind of people that don't want to see what is on front of his eyes (like HIVE) , is just looking for money.

Maybe in a couple of months or years will be hearing again from him that he is making a "REAL decentralized social media platform" , and because people hear him this time , people will hear him again, and he will draw the attention.

Sad, but it could happen.

Did someone proposed him the Fediverse and Mastodon?

It's hard to imagine Larry Sanger being unaware of these. He is clearly looking for something more different:

Hey what do i tell you about it, he's a business man, not really worried about decentralization. Maybe he is looking for money and because Bitcoin is trending he might want to get into the train before is gone.

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i tried to ask how does he think an average person will be able to host himself, but i got no answer. In the end of the long conversation i feel like he wants to build something for himself that would maybe work for tech people, maybe.

several people did a detail analysis of his blog about decentralized protocol but he ignored it because of his bias on crypto coins. and most did not even mentioned tokenomics because it is not that relevant in the topic he is talking about.

i feel that when you ask for something and it is shown to you, at least you check it out, if you ignoring it, you are not really asking for it.

8hHVpauQQYxe1XRgmBVcaxhzdz7428gcbLeko9afJaioDZaG6byz4ZS8Bci.png

Wow, I am impressed, in one day he had you guys down pat. I guess he wasn't looking for this particular type of circle jerking data protocol interchanging across networks.