What Tribe Miner has the best ROI?

in LeoFinance5 months ago (edited)

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Most people really don't have any idea how well their Hive Engine miners are working and if they are even worth it. It's confusing, there is a lot of variance, and Hive Engine doesn't have good way to report it.

I built a tool that allows me to analyze Hive Engine miners and I did some sample testing across large holders on different tribes.

Want to know my results?

Everyone knows about the famous Leo miners, so let's test them first.

First let me give you a breakdown of how I am doing the testing.

I first hit the blockchain to find the number of miners owned by the user being queried. I then check the price of the token and the miner token for future calculations. Mining with Hive Engine is extremely consistent, so if you are one of the 30 users who win a slot each hour, you will receive a set number of tokens. I don't have an easy way to get this from the blockchain, so I just check a users wallet and use that, for example LeoM is 1.06 Leo per slot.

From here I will check the last 100 days mining rewards of the user but I truncate it to 7 days as any large purchases or sales of miners will mess up my calculations. From here I get the mean (average) and median (middle value) of their daily mining slots. There is a lot of variance here and I'd like to use more than 7 days but users typically buy/sell miners and I have no good way to get historic value to match up with the mining rewards so I keep the historic value relatively low (7).

From here it's just math with the numbers I have. I truncate the current date as it is an incomplete 24 hour period and will mess up calculations.

@brofund holds a lot of miners and is a good test for various tribes. Keep mind, mining has a lot of variance, and I have seen these numbers move as much as 25% depending on the user. For this reason I will use two users for each miner from the richlist.

Leo Miners (LeoM)

User: @brofund
Miners: 13110.295

            mining
date
2020-12-06      52
2020-12-07      46
2020-12-08      65
2020-12-09      49
2020-12-10      46
2020-12-11      43
2020-12-12      37

Mines/day (Mean):  48.29
Mines/day (Median):  46.0
LEO price:  2.05027625
LEOM price:  11.996739
Mine Value:  1.06  LEO
Hive/day  104.94
Break-Even  4.11  years
User: @tonimontana.leo
Miners: 7550.0

            mining
date
2020-12-06      42
2020-12-07      22
2020-12-08      25
2020-12-09      26
2020-12-10      30
2020-12-11      20
2020-12-12      32

Mines/day (Mean):  28.14
Mines/day (Median):  26.0
LEO price:  2.05027625
LEOM price:  11.996739
Mine Value:  1.06  LEO
Hive/day  61.16
Break-Even  4.06  years

STEM Miners (STEMM)

User: @brofund
Miners: 1060.6

            mining
date
2020-12-06     133
2020-12-07     136
2020-12-08     151
2020-12-09     133
2020-12-10     131
2020-12-11     138
2020-12-12     139

Mines/day (Mean):  137.29
Mines/day (Median):  136.0
STEM price:  0.23332
STEMM price:  19.98
Mine Value:  0.9312  STEM
Hive/day  29.83
Break-Even  1.95  years
User: @steem.leo
Miners: 100.0

            mining
date
2020-12-06      20
2020-12-07      11
2020-12-08      20
2020-12-09      20
2020-12-10      17
2020-12-11      14
2020-12-12      13

Mines/day (Mean):  16.43
Mines/day (Median):  17.0
STEM price:  0.23333
STEMM price:  19.98
Mine Value:  0.9312  STEM
Hive/day  3.57
Break-Even  1.53  years

CTP Miners (CTPM)

User: @cruisin
Miners: 2550.0

            mining
date
2020-12-06      39
2020-12-07      36
2020-12-08      31
2020-12-09      29
2020-12-10      38
2020-12-11      40
2020-12-12      31

Mines/day (Mean):  34.86
Mines/day (Median):  36.0
CTP price:  0.070002
CTPM price:  0.96
Mine Value:  1.247  CTP
Hive/day  3.04
Break-Even  2.2  years
User: @chronocrypto
Miners: 650.05

            mining
date
2020-12-06      12
2020-12-07       6
2020-12-08       3
2020-12-09       6
2020-12-10      14
2020-12-11      12
2020-12-12       8

Mines/day (Mean):  8.71
Mines/day (Median):  8.0
CTP price:  0.070002
CTPM price:  0.96
Mine Value:  1.247  CTP
Hive/day  0.76
Break-Even  2.25  years

Weed Miners (WEEDM)

User: @scooter77
Miners: 60.0

            mining
date
2020-12-06      26
2020-12-07      30
2020-12-08      23
2020-12-09      28
2020-12-10      20
2020-12-11      22
2020-12-12      25

Mines/day (Mean):  24.86
Mines/day (Median):  25.0
WEED price:  0.1262
WEEDM price:  6.0
Mine Value:  0.14925  WEED
Hive/day  0.47
Break-Even  2.11  years
User: @tradingideas
Miners: 10.62

            mining
date
2020-12-05       4
2020-12-06       4
2020-12-07       4
2020-12-08       6
2020-12-09       5
2020-12-10       4
2020-12-11       3

Mines/day (Mean):  4.29
Mines/day (Median):  4.0
WEED price:  0.1262
WEEDM price:  6.0
Mine Value:  0.14925  WEED
Hive/day  0.08
Break-Even  2.16  years

BEE Miners (WORKERBEE)

User: @eturnerx
Miners: 11259.22004

            mining
date
2020-10-14       9
2020-10-15      15
2020-10-16      10
2020-10-17      16
2020-10-18      15
2020-10-19      12
2020-10-20      21

Mines/day (Mean):  14.0
Mines/day (Median):  15.0
BEE price:  0.92084
WORKERBEE price:  1.65
Mine Value:  1.144  BEE
Hive/day  14.75
Break-Even  3.45  years
User: @dustindivitto
Miners: 6000.0

            mining
date
2020-10-14       2
2020-10-15       5
2020-10-16       1
2020-10-17       5
2020-10-18       3
2020-10-19       6
2020-10-20       5

Mines/day (Mean):  3.86
Mines/day (Median):  5.0
BEE price:  0.92084
WORKERBEE price:  1.65
Mine Value:  1.145  BEE
Hive/day  4.07
Break-Even  6.67  years

Conclusion

I want to first say I have no easy way to tell if a user has bought/sold miners in the last 7 days. This may skew the results slightly or potentially greatly, but I have noticed very consistent results so I am fairly confident these numbers are accurate. I also had to avoid testing any users holding both Miners & Mega Miners as there is no easy way to deal with this.

Reviewing all the miners I tested, STEM Miners have the best immediate returns in terms of how long it takes to break even. If you were lucky enough to buy the miners cheaper than current price, you can be doing far better than these numbers.

I only tested tribes that I had the ability to test, for example Archon uses a unique mining system and doesn't fit into the algorithm I used to calculate results.


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Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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Thanks. I just bought a few STEM miners the other day; so my confirmation bias is tickled pink.

Great info!

Would love to see this same analysis but with only the mega miners!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Where is the Archon miners?? :O

 5 months ago (edited)

They have a very different method of distribution, but I have done the calculations based on my observations and found it to be around 2.7-3.8 year break-even period.

With all miners, you can typically sell them at any point for near what you paid for them or potentially more.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Ye true.
Thanks! And yes!
I got 5 archon miners for 20 Hive each. They are over 100 now :o

You should be doing really well then.

Its quite good yes :D
Thanks for the calculations

Nice. A few people have actually messaged me asking about the miners so I can send them here now for an updated count. @brofund did buy those LEOMs for 2 HIVE/LEOM. So breakeven would be 0.685 years for them. They (and the others who bought early on) are making out like bandits

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

This was my first thought. It really depends what people paid.

it does, but this is an accurate representation of buying as of right now.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Value LEO miners in LEO.

I ran the numbers last night and i got the exact same results as Marky, just under 4 years at today price of about 5.9 (12hive) LEO per LEO miner.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

 5 months ago (edited)

Those who got in early did really well, STEM Miners were 50% off when I first launched them, leo a lot cheaper than now.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I think most people don't touch it because they don't understand it enough. Can't or (shouldn't) throw money in something you don't understand in debt.

I do agree, I don’t think everyone fully understands what is really going on and just chasing passive income.

Passive money is a bit of a pipe dream anyway. Śemi passive works better

I didn't even know miners were a thing until the past 2 months. Not sure how they completely slipped me by. I have not purchased many, but this post might help make a decision for me.

 5 months ago 

I think I will stick to regular GPU mining...

They are not mutually exclusive.
But if you have the low electricity fees, definitely worth it.

I have 15 cent kwh where I am, it's pretty counter productive, but still profitable just don't bother now.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

 5 months ago 

I already have made the capital investment, so it makes sense to run them. I get the flexibility to support different PoS projects and earn some coin in the process. I like the flexibility and ROI. ...although some days, they are a pain!

Those results are pretty accurate.
I did same analysis of all above miners about a week ago when bought plenty of them in each tribe. I was more focused of how many tokens I can mine in a year based on probability and calculate ROI.

For Archon Miner, I did a conservative estimate when ARCHONM was at 100 hive each. ROI was more than 20% for only considering mining rewards. I ignored the guaranteed rewards and hive rewards paid to miners. So overall it also comes to between 2-3 years break even if those are also considered.

Haven't bought WeedM yet, but as far as CTP and Archon miners are concerned, they are doing pretty good. Also buying STEMM now is a good decision.

Thanks for the analysis.
Regards.

This seems cool though you assume there are better results than this one you are showing us.
Buy my question is, how does one start this mining?
What does it take to do that?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

The results can vary, but I tested multiple users to get a good sample.

You need to buy a miner token on Hive Engine, then in most cases (all I believe except Archon) you need to stake the tokens, and you will start seeing mining rewards within a short time.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Oh really?
Thank you, I will check it out if I can start mining

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Nice work dear. Does your work/script be able to check on the Miner WORKERBEE; which mines the Hive Engine native token BEE. Cheers

I added two examples of WORKERBEE to the post.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Why are these called "Miners"? Mining has two parts... work in and money extracted. If i'm not mistaken this is Money in and money extracted... so these are more investment machines? Interest generating contracts? (that can be bought and sold) Calling them miners seems to me very disingenuous they seem nothing like any other type of mining specially in the crypto world mining is when they perform tasks and then perhaps strike it rich after quite a bit of work (the work doesn't even have to be done by humans).

Was calling it "mining" simply a way of doing some sort of investment funding under the guise of a more lawfully accepted practice like "mining"? Generating funds for the tribe is fine but the question comes back to why is it called "mining" because it's a fun name and one that people are familiar with? Or was it to avoid legal issues because if so it would be insanely easy to see right through this. So I hope you all stay safe I do care about you guys but if that was the reason for calling it "mining" it won't stand up ... at all. But perhaps there is another reason for calling it mining that i'm not seeing. (this post is all about ROI and investments.)
Maybe @aggroed would chime in as i'm guessing he gave it the name.

They are "virtual miners" which have a dedicated portion of the reward pool (typically 10-20%).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Being an in favour of gamefying almost everything we do, wouldn't be appropriate to transform the "miner" tokens into some sort of game? Someone out there could just create a game using all HIVE-Engine miners and this would help everyone I am sure. Unifying more values and interchanging them using #HIVEGames.

Would love to see something within the lines of the prospectors (on WAX/EOS). Of course, if a miner is gone, then the game has to adapt... so, its a challenge. But ideas, are things that don't really hurt (yet).

It is already a game, 30 miners can win each hour.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

yeah... you know what I meant.

If I bought enough Hive power for a vote worth a penny, how long would it take to earn that money back through upvoting? I realize there are plenty of variables but I'll settle with a ballpark figure. Chop chop do some math.

 5 months ago (edited)

~7 years without posting.

You could power down at any point and have you initial investment back.

Yeesh. That's still reasonable, I suppose, if that member was throwing the money away in order to support content, like people do on other platforms and in general when it comes to any form of entertainment. And yes, they can have their money back at any point, which is a great deal. Often those consumer types will spend, then spend again, and again and again again. Disposable income.

But wait! I would like to ask if possible to personal mine using the GPU the HIVE token?

No it is not.

Thanks buddy...

These kind of payback from 4 years or less are the kind of payback investors would only dream of. A major piece that can not necessary be calculated is the appreciation of a token. LEO currently is worth at least 2 to 1 Hives, who is to say it can not rise anymore which will shorten the ROI. Thanks for the research.

The price of the token is factored in, but it is not possible to calculate future gains/losses based on market conditions. Liquidity is also a big factor as well.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

How do you buy the Miners?
The Mining process I know is through a computer or paying a Mining contract.
Sorry, i just learning about it. I have interest because I used trade some coins at Engine. It takes time but I just wait for a better price, I use only some dollars. Not much.

You can buy them on Hive-Engine like any other token, just go to token tab and type "Miner".

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thank you so much, I will check it.

This is a very interesting comparison, I think miners are overpriced at the moment with such long ROI times of several years, which is a long time in crypto.

It maybe a "long time" but very few crypto investments will double your money in that time frame while your initial investment can be sold back. Powering up is around 7 year break-even in comparison.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Interesting to the max. Thank you for the work and curiosity that you expended making this comparison.

4 years sounds like a long time. But in the Fiat world you'd be extremely happy with 25% per year. I'd guess it really boils down to what you want/need for personal satisfaction in the crypto space.

This is very helpful, thanks for doing this. Is it correct to assume, since almost all miners function on a similar algorithm, that the more miners are in circulation, the lower the return gets? Since only 30 spots per hour are available, the probablility of getting a hit is directly linked to the number of miners working. Few miners -> More probabilities of being successful

In a vacuum, yes, but you also have to factor in miner cost and token cost and liquidity to sell at some point in the future.

I jumped into some miners for these exact reasons. Great overview of the miners and their returns. I particularly like the miners with lower token supply. LEOM are great but there are a lot more out there than WEEDM and STEMM.

This is great. I was posting everywhere asking if they are worth it . It looks like they are , if our investment is long term .

I still want to ask this , is it possible to earn with 5-10 miners?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

You can earn with one, but you are going up against people with potentially thousands of miners in some cases, and there are only 30 slots that can win a reward per hour.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

So it basically comes down to probability and luck?

I can earn next hour or may not earn for next year ?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It is a lottery system, every miner has an equal chance of winning one of the slots every hour. The more long term you look, the less random it becomes.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

All right :) Thanks for all the input .

I've had 1 LEO miner for about 2 months now and earned 2 Leo tokens.

That helps :) Thanks a lot .

oh, woah I was way off I have 8 miners >.> My bad!

@themarkymark , will more STEMM be rolled out in future ?

There are still some not on the market but I try to keep the supply low.

I see because my brother and I are planning to buy more but if more miners are added then it will dilute my probability .

There are still some that can be added but they are currently the best value by a significant margin.

Absolutely , my payment is due on 22nd . As soon as I get it , I will buy them lol.

Just bought 60 . Cheers.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

good luck!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

where do you see the mining stats?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I built a tool that calculates them.

How miners actually work?

If you own miners and stake them, you have a chance of being rewarded tokens every hour. The more miners you own the better the chance. The more miners everyone else owns, the more you compete for them each hour.

Once you own a miner it will continue to earn for you until you unstake it.

Holy shit. I had no idea it took that long to break even. Good thing I'm here for the long haul. Is there a east way to go back thru past transactions and find out how a person paid for their miners?


Posted via weedcash.network

Not really, it's kind of a pain to search Hive Engine transactions

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

2 years is a long time indeed to break even. But like many other passive income crypto strategies, like buying PoS tokens, the assumption is that the Hive-Engine token, along with the miner will boom in price in the future.
At least, that's my assumption. Either way, in it for the long passive income haul. :)

You can sell them back at any time even a month later and get most of what was paid if not more in some cases. So everything earned was gravy.

Good point. Kind of like the selling the video cards of a gpu mining rig, i fyou got them cheap of course.

I prefer get the token and get curaturie recurn than minera bit it would depend what are your Foals and of course your Time.
Beat regard.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

@themarkymark,
Thanks I invested on WORKERBEE, seems STEMM is a good option.
$tangent

Cheers~


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