Not Another Voyeur
Not another Hive post....
Well, it is and it isn't, but it could be, if you wanted it to be. However, this is more of an observation or perhaps a realization that came to me today as I was answering a comment about Hive as a consumer space in comparison to the other platforms.
Hive is not voyeuristic.
Don't look at my wife
At least the centralized platforms I have been on haven't been about creating content for a long time, rather, they are platforms for consuming content. And what is consumed tends to be short-form, surface level, headline filler. The majority of users don't add anything there of themselves that can be judged, they just voyeuristically observe, judging.
Hive is different in this regard, because it is more personal and community orientated in the sense that there is an economy that incentivizes interaction, not just consumption. Active people who spend their time creating, tend not to be people who spend a lot of time consuming, which makes creators less valuable on the centralized platforms.
They are like models to hang the clothes on and while they get paid, the real value of them is that consumers will spend their attention looking, soaking in all of the advertisements, nudged to buy what they don't need. The platforms are like point of sale candy at the register, you might have gone in for some apples, but you are presented a chocolate bar, just when you are hungry and have your wallet out.
You didn't mean to look.
But once you did...
Platforms like Twitter, fed by whatever polarized media topics are relevant on the day, leverage outrage and drama to grab the attention of people who for the most part, aren't actually going to add their voice into the fray. Most are there viewing, or perhaps, aren't there at all.
This is an interesting chart from a Pew research in 2021:
This incudes retweets and quotes etc.
Look at the "likes" and "retweets" received.
That is telling and what it tells, is the majority of the content isn't engaging the audience at all. Remember these are averages, so when you see this:
It skews the averages.
That one post from Elon Musk has as many likes as what 6,870 of the average of the top 25 posters gets in a month, out of their average 446,550 posts per month. How much visibility are the average users really getting for their effort and, what are they getting in return for it.
How many are bots?
My last post from yesterday, has more engagement and support than the average month of the most active users on Twitter, and it is almost 2000 words long. People spent 10 minutes reading it (or skimming it) and then, spent however long commenting on it - not with some pithy comment looking to point score, but with thought and intention, adding their voice to the discussion.
Why the fuck would anyone be on Twitter?
Voyeurs.
Essentially, the 25% are Twitter, with the 75% nearly pure voyeurs and I would suspect, that there is quite a curve in that 25% too, where there is a big difference between the top 1% of tweeters in volume, and the bottom of the top quarter. It is a content circlejerk, essentially the same group of people and bots, amplifying the voices of themselves.
That is social media, right?
Not really. It isn't social at all, but it is media. While people read the news for the articles, the newspaper doesn't create the news to share news information. Similar to the clothes hanger models, the stories are there to attract attention for the real purpose, ad revenue. That is how they make their money. Social media does this too, where they have cleverly convinced some of us that our voice should be heard, given us a platform, used algorithms to set up controversy and opposition, all to create juicy drama that makes us want to support or attack one side of the argument.
Just to sell advertising space and network potential.
It is opportunistic.
They are corporations and have no moral code, other than maximization of shareholder wealth. Their user base's resistance is impaired, conditioned to participate and pick a side on every topic, whether it is of personal importance or not, causing our immune system to fight itself, like an auto-immune disease.
It is pathogenic.
Social media isn't improving community, it is destroying it en masse, as it is about joining forces with strangers against a narrow cause, regardless of the complexity or nuances involved. It is simplifying every discussion and person into a homogenous mass that shifts opinions and reforms across polarized lines, making every argument, binary.
On/Off
From what I have seen, there is no actual discussion and minds are not being changed, they are just people pitted against each other looking to score points in the system. And, those points have no value, other than getting that little bit of a kick from getting a like or feeling like they scored a point by hurting someone's feelings - dopamine addicts.
Hive isn't like that. There is actual discussions that happen under the posts and minds can be changed, at least over time. Discussions can go on for years on a topic, but along the way, there is some consistency in the participants, so the discussions, even the arguments, are between people in relationships - often like grumpy old men who have been arguing about everything for the last 70 years.
A community.
Not a community of random people collected for a moment, like a gigantic one-night stand. But a group of people who get to know each other over time and through many perspectives. On Hive, people share of themselves, they give their experience through their content and opinions on various topics, and they change over time, as their understanding changes.
Observe for long enough and see how people evolve here.
It isn't always for the betterment of the community or themselves, as there are plenty of drama-filled dummyspits, but it does change people on average, for the better.
And this is the realization that I came to today - that I like Hive because people are incentivized to participate and be part of the discussion, not just sit back and soak in the discussion passively. It is not that people have to read or comment on every post they see, but enough people come back often enough to engage with the platform. If people realized how much "life value" there is on Hive by actually participating here, like so many people who are already here, their activity would drop off a cliff on the other platforms and their lives would be better for it.
Here, content creators are valued for the experience they provide through their content. And consumers aren't valued because of the ad revenue they bring, but for the experiences they share. Hive doesn't have a hidden agenda that uses manipulation techniques to influence users for its own gain. It is an open community with no set preferences, other than how the community behaves. That is,
How we behave.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Posted Using LeoFinance Alpha
Great post.
You see, since joining hive this years january, i have always find facebook really strange, i barely login to even check for updates.
Hive is not just a blockchain, but an ecosystem where one can express passions and feelings. Let me give an example - My football analysis compared to blockchain analysis should be 70% to 30%.
I could write a long content regarding a particular topic on football without even checking out other sources. But when it comes to blockchain, i must make research before dropping an article. That is where the passion lies, writing great contents that helps to improve others.
You must be wondering why my reputation is so low, i got penalized for a something wrong, but i still love the Hive Ecosystem.
I was wondering about your rep and found that you were using AI to create content. That is frowned upon by me at least :)
Just one !!
Only one !!.
But i had to remove the content after accepting my mistake.
Still got the passion for the blockchain, you could see the progress from yesterday till today, from 14 to 32.
I av a target of meeting 40rep before today runs out.
That's the spirit, that's the passion!!!.
Still love hive.
Hi friend Taraz "@tarazkp", two little things: 1) Twitter is not comparable to Hive, the ideology of publication goes according to the needs of its consumers. Whether your post yesterday had more support than the average standard Twitter user is relative. In HIVE there is a platform where users automate the vote, so I estimate that 75% of the votes that the publications receive is automated, you can easily deduce that because those who comment are always the same and this does not exceed 10 users. 2) The majority of those who are on HIVE are there precisely because of the income generated by their posts or their comments/replies. I have been a Latino living in Canada since 2010. In my country of origin, joining HIVE was a necessity because of the hardships that are experienced there, because of the miserable salaries – the lowest in the world, barely 5 dollars a month... I don't know any student who uses HIVE as a means of information, despite the fact that I have insisted on it to several of them.
I have browsed widely through different communities and I have found those who have made the platform their means to advertise their products and services; some are doing well, others not so well. HIVE users do not want advertising. I have observed mediocre publications that have been widely rewarded and other well-worked ones that if they have collected 0.01 it is a lot.
HIVE users do not want advertising. I have observed mediocre publications that have been widely rewarded and other well-worked ones that if they have collected 0.01 it is a lot.
You argued the existence of BOTH on Twitter, but on HIVE there are many, and there are many who pay for both and their trailers to vote for them; the latter, I think, is a bad practice.
It has been a pleasure to read and comment on these issues that concern us all. Greetings to the little princess of the house. A hug from afar.
I wasn't talking about votes and, no it isn't the same ten users for me ;)
Likely, but for example, if you have a look at the people who comment on my posts, most don't do it for the vote, as it is insignificant to their lives, because of their life position and where they are from. They appreciate it though.
Point out who pays for votes, and I don't mind downvoting them. That is part of the usecase for downvotes :)
The majority of the content generated on Twitter, is actually bot generated. They haven't been able to filter it out well, but there is no incentive to either, since there is no earning there, it just creates mass.
THe centralized media should never be used for education or staying abreast of topics, because it is algorithmically driven to give the view that monetizes your account the most - that is the only metric that matters to the platform. "relevancy" is irrelevant, as long as it makes money.
And, my point about the engagement isn't to compare it to Twitter in the sense that Hive is better because of more comments, it was to point out that even with 2000 words, there was still more engagement and the depth of engagement is at the level that people are able to build their understanding. Twitter doesn't dive deep into anything at all - so what is actually learned?
I remembered a house from a year ago on Facebook. A young woman celebrated that she already had 7 million followers on Facebook and 7 million on YouTube, I replied with a question to which I am still waiting for an answer: I don't understand the statistics you handle, how is it possible that you have 10M followers on Facebook and not even 100K like your posts? And on YouTube, the same thing happens to you?
On the other hand, when I made the observation, there was another young girl on YouTube who did not exceed 1M, but had 980K likes, this I consider real statistics.
In the end I won, the young lady on Facebook blocked me.... I do the same on HIVE, I have noticed that by having a reputation number over 75, the trailers vote those posts for the curation share, but in no way guarantees that the 300 or more users who voted the post, have read at most the title of the post. The same goes for those who automate the voting…
On Hive, there is no additional benefit for voting on one piece of content over another within the first 24 hours. Also, the numbers of voters is irrelevant and in terms of reputation, that is dictated by the stake of voters, not the number of voters.
Very few of the public metrics on any of the platforms are relevant, because they are there for advertising purposes too. Their accuracy is highly questionable due to a number of reasons.
How do you know she didn't buy likes? There are services for that.
btw, the 50+ readers of the post I mentioned is the statistics of readers who looked at it through the peakd interface only. It doesn't calculate leo, hive blog, ecency etc. The view statistics on Hive are incredibly hard to calculate, because they aren't coming through a single interface. The votes are easy because no matter the interface, it is written to the chain.
Just so you have some background, I have a pretty good understanding of how these things work here, as well as how the community operates. I have been around for awhile and if you dig back for a few years, you will likely find posts that address a lot of your points.
I like that people are learning about Hive though :)
Social networks are plagued by young people; in Latin America, for example, numerous children are on them, how, why, simple, their profiles are not really real, the date of birth is modified so that the system calculates a certain age to be on these social networks – few profiles are supervised by an adult.
Seeing a 6-year-old with a tablet or a smartphone is common in Latin America. I have visited Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama and Mexico, and this has been the common denominator. Here in Canada, they are more reserved and the legislation is very strict with children under 12 years old on social networks. You won't see a child with a tablet or smartphone under 12 in Canada, I hope it's the same in your country. It makes me sad to see that Latin America pretends to be first world, but in reality it's not…
Those of us who have matured, who have learned from these social networks, find in HIVE a more interesting and serious world. I have delved into your blog for more than five years, I come from the old chain, which you know very well. Twice I've been run over by downvoted trailers; In my five years at HIVE, this is the 2nd time I've gone back to 60 reputation. I participate in challenges, I like that and if you look at my wallet, I reinvest EVERYTHING in the platform. I'm a fan of a badge and like to position myself quietly. A couple of years ago I did it differently, I learned that despite the fact that some freedom is managed on the platform, users are susceptible to criticism, when they are not in line with their thoughts, they label you, silence you, put you on their blacklists. ... Today I am more subtle, I prefer to make virtual friends who are waiting for a comment, a publication that one posts to read, comment on and/or reply to it.
I think your publication is great. It is true that hive makes you a better person. You share content unselfishly, you give value to the experiences of others, everything leads to continually improve and strive. I always read you, I admire you a lot; I practically don't write in your comments because many times I don't feel like an expert in the topics you deal with, but your work is admirable.
I think one of my biggest issues with longform content on web 2.0 is the fact that it takes forever to consume it. It might be just as many words as something on Hive, but to monetize it they need to have all the ads that are almost impossible to scroll through sometimes. Recipe sites are a great example of that. Just give me the recipe...
For sure. I struggle to get through content in other places, largely because it is designed like a supermarket - the stuff I want daily, is nowhere near the front door - have to wind through the entire store of temptation to buy a carton of milk.
It is distracting and, they pop up and move the text on some sites, making it even harder. I have been closing out of sites that are too hard to read because of ads and design.
Lolol - I was just thinking this the other day. It was a simple recipe, but took an eternity (it felt) to make any sense of it.
Yeah, that is exactly it. Then you have the paywall sites. I won't even get into those...
We have various privacy laws in Europe, so visiting sites requires accepting or rejecting trackers. I reject, but I haven't found an "auto reject" setting. Then for many US sites, if you reject, you are blocked from the content completely. These are "free" sites.
That's horrible. I know a lot of YouTube stuff is blocked based on region too.
I am not sure about cosuming, I think the centralized platforms are just for wasting time. However, one can convert the time they spend on HIVE into money, if creative.
The "time on site" metrics are high, even though the users are getting very little out of it. They are under the illusion there is value, but they can't actually quantify what that value is.
The illusion remind me of skipping from one video to another with high sound open :)
I think the observation around views and engagement is telling on Hive. I agree my other socials I get way more views, but so little actual engagement. I feel like others are starting to realize that content is starting to die as companies try everything they can to monetize while killing the actual human element of social media. I can't see what my friends are doing on Instagram now it's all ads.
So, who (or what) is actually generating the views?
The metrics that are seen on most sites tell very little, you have to look under the hood to actually get anything meaningful. When people scroll a feed, they are technically "viewing" but if they aren't even slowing down, what are they taking in? The back end counts that and uses it to algorithm advantage though. Everything is tracked, yet we are beholden to the few irrelevant metrics the platform knows will make us feel good (or bad) about.
Here, I know who comments and what they engage with, and it is transparently available to see forever. The metrics aren't needed, because we aren't selling ad space (for the most part - some interfaces do), we are building a community.
Imagine inviting a friend over for a coffee and a biscuit and then between every topic change, your friend gives you a 30 second advertisement that he has been paid 0.0003 cents to deliver. Nice time?
That is "social" media these days.
Hive is not voyeuristic!!
I agree Hive is way more personal than other sites. Twitter I skim through looking for news so yes it is more media than social. I haven't read a news paper or watched the news in years so it is like my newspaper these days.
Yep - some people skim it for news, but i wonder how many dive to actually understand what they are reading, and how many make their opinion up on the healdine?
I must admit I don't pay much attention and it is just to get a hint of what is supposedly happening. News has been manipulated so much who knows what is real and what is fake anymore and you kind of get a sense this has been happening for decades. I bumped into Sky News in 1994 nd they were leaving South Africa after telling me their job was done as the Government was changing hands. Always an underlying objective and not about the real news as that was unimportant apparently.
I mean... it's just so much easier.
In the time it took me to read your post, I could have mindlessly looked at 100 images on Instagram, 50 Tik Tok videos or a bunch of tweets. To read your post I have to follow a train of thought throughout paragraphs, and potentially even have my own thoughts about your content as well. It just takes way more effort to hang out on Hive, but I do think projects like LikeTu and Leo Threads might help that imbalance a bit.
The other side is that the content on Instagram and Twitter is just vast. There is so much content on those sites that it's impossible to consume everything generated in one day... so you can just hang out in your niches and not worry about anything else.
I don't think there's anything wrong with soaking in passivity though, people need brain breaks, and I think that's why easy TV shows like Friends or The Office will always always always be more popular than more intense programs... people need time off, life is hectic.
Also... when are we going to see you in a swimsuit dagnammit?!?
Own thoughts? The horror!
And yeah, there is some balance increasing.
The amount of content is also interesting on the other platforms. More is being added to YouTube than can possibly ever be consumed - most of it is bot generated. Weird.
And yeah, I think there isn't an issue with mindless consumption, but when all consumption is mindless, the mind follows suit.
There are one or two out there... though hopefully nothing recent :D
You are right - the more I get to interact on Hive, the more I enjoy the experience. While the comment section on most of my brawl and season reports are pretty shallow, I've had some good banter on the few analysis articles I've put out over the last month. Hopefully as I start to diversify my content into other communities outside of Splinterlands, I will grow my audience and have more people to interact with in the comments section.
But you got me pegged on TikTok... I don't give the app permission for my camera or microphone, so I definitely don't make any content myself. However my partner does and she also likes to share posts with me for humor and for new projects/life improvements, so I'm glad I still have access as a voyeur to view the content she shares with me.
I think this is the case and I will try to get in there too :)
My wife seems to spend some time on TikTok too, but doesn't post anything. Instagram is her thing - though doesn't share much there either. I far prefer to live a life, than live a life through another's curated eyes.
I agree 100%. Typically I am too busy dancing in the moment to realize all the mobile phones are recording every song, every drop. Don't get me wrong, when I hear a song I love or some cool visual effects sometimes I will get into videographer mode, but I much prefer to be fully present in the moment. I've found that some of my favorite festival experiences are those when I don't have my mobile phone available at all. No distractions, just the music and the vibes!
Hive is different from other platforms. With the introduction of hive I am not using social media platforms to that extent and I am more into hive now. I love the challenge on hive which are way of communication and creating an artistic type think. Hive is shaping my creativity.
Some people are forced into using the other platforms, as it is the only way they get internet access.
I do not know, i never been a big fish on twitter, but I do have a special account on BCH platform where I can boost my tweets dramatically when needed for 0.02-0.03$. Huh!
Is BCH still a thing? ;D
No, not realy. But that little cashrain thing is good at boosting tweets.
While we are not free of bots and token comments, you opened my eyes a little. Those platforms are definitely becoming more media than social but still more social than many of those cave trolls are.
I find myself skimming some posts or even dropping a vote on something without reading them just because of who the authors are and what I have seen them doing for the community here.
I also find myself skipping through a busy feed filled with people I have connected with over the years, and the ones who rehive a dozen posts at a time.
Then, there are the ones I look for who always seem to have great conversations. I end up posting longer replies than many other people’s original posts. Thought provoking discussion with the people i choose to interact with is among my favourite things to do whether in your posts, some other knowledge sharers or even in my #thoughtfuldailypost weekly post discussing positivity. I find it not distracting but social and thoughtful in meaningful conversation.
What’s special about you, besides being a huge leader here, is that it is like a conversation where there are replies and I have to stop myself from replying to replies too much knowing you have many others to interact with.
Anyhow, I am wondering whether the strict consumers would like it here as the topics can be deeper. Perhaps they will be inspired to converse more interactively and end up making rewards for it? Best thing is they get to decide.
I think this happens a lot and it is something that I am conscious of personally. I want to ensure that if anyone does read, there is some value for the community in he post and comments section, at least most of the time. I will not take support of any kind for granted.
Exactly. The "too many shares" is an issue. Having said that, I should share more :)
Meaingful is a good word for it. @manoldonchev used the same word the other day too - which was part of the comment stream that led to this post.
I don't think so (at the moment). But, does that matter? Most people don't enjoy the ballet or an opera, but some people will support them endlessly with copious amounts of money. We can be niche, and valuable. But the mass content with low value, is only valuable because of scale. if that interest dies away, they collapse very fast.
Yeah, well, niche is what makes it meaningful for us who look for exactly that kind of knowledge. And stuff related.
Thinking of Economics as a field I grew increasingly interested in since joining the blockchain social platform Hive once Steem... Imagine me completing a master's degree in Social Psychology through a curriculum that included nothing about Economics. Because that's how it was. It's a field better left alone, right?
Ah right on you have both been a part of my feed and coveted network for years. The things I have learned about market cycles, adoption cycles and the perspectives from people across the planet in their personal editorials is incalculable. Not bad for joining with the sole objective of making 1000 of this token too.
Mostly hive users highlights the weaknesses of traditional social media platforms especially Twitter but still Twitter have monopoly we don't have any social media platform which we can say becoming a alternative of Twitter and going to solve issues which are Twitter users facing, hive blockchain is a totally different thing I don't think it will replace Twitter or even become well known as a alternative of Twitter
As a result we reach a much smaller audience both in content creation and consumers.
Both can survive, you let a lot of people blow off some easy steam and some create thoughtful posts and cover topics.
As a crypto person you might know of Erik Voorhees, he is an early Bitcon Adopter who now has some projects of his own. He was kind of kicked out of the Bitcoin circle, for not being a Maxi, but he is one of the most interesting thinkers in the space.
His Dad has a blog like platform that is fairly large on Facebook. Since I am already there looking at family pictures, and the simple shit on Facebook, when he posts, I always enjoy a thoughtful look at some issue, even when I disagree with him.
He holds great discussions and his posts are an absolute pleasure in a world those who aren't serious. https://www.facebook.com/jvoorhees (you don't have to have an account to read)
In any case I typed all that to say..
WHY NOT BOTH??
Nothing wrong with using both and it wasn't my intention to even question that - though the question is why would a content creator spend so much time, if they aren't getting any attention there. Most aren't. I think it is that people feel they are "in the mix" there or something.
I noticed that there is a huge lobby of journalists, news paper agencies, left and even right type of the lobbies. They kind of create opinion chaos and force the people to navigate past that. If you do manage to get past, twitter continues to recommend it's own bias into the system. I suppose as long as Hive does not have such algorithm, things would be calm and peaceful here.
It is a whole ecosystem of spreading centralized messaging to create division.
Well, my FB feed is full of people who do have something to say and make the effort of writing thoughtful posts. They are there to express themselves, convince somebody of something, share information, etc. There are nice initiatives using the group/event tools, too. They are just doing it in the wrong place since they have not realized there is alternative that would treat them better. It is hilarious but it is crypto projects that get the lack of confidence. Clinging to the schemers we think we know, are we? Thinking we're entitled to our accounts there and complaining about stuff we can opt out of. Just...human.
They would adapt quickly if they knew they would find the same audience elsewhere. Trying to play the algorithms' game and find a larger percentage of it with each post. That is some more effort. And that's the problem of transition to any alt platform. But decentralization of choices leads to decentralization of audience as well. Or the effort to build a new one.
I wonder, is the problem that they are trying to find an audience, rather than find a community? Just thinking about it, they don't actually care who they share to, as long as they are getting attention for it - perhaps that is one of the reasons the content ends up so toxic in so many cases?
I think in our case...in my former FB circles, it is me who left the community. Because it used to be analogue, it used to be about spending time together as a huge group with subgroups. It started because of once-upon-a-time mIRC communities, actually. Transferred to real life, then back to FB and...we started having families, children, we grew old, we grew apart. Perhaps the FB railroads had some part in that. Who knows?
I always claimed it was a tool, a service, an environment, but a rational person should always be the master of the former two and wary of the latter third aspect.
I also like Hive because it's open to anyone and anyone can see what they did on the blockchain. As for Twitter, I think it's full of a bunch of people who have too much time on their hands. Some of them seem to argue on the most basic things. There are just so many people following Elon that they see everything he does and I agree that a lot of the metrics doesn't translate into actual views/engagements.
Small minds! :D
They feel like their mind is big though, because of the size of the stage and audience they think they have access to.
I agree when you say that voyeurism is a widespread disease. Besides mentioning adult market we must remind that porn is one of the most powerful too to control people's mind, desires, energy and attention.
Another curious data is the number of views meaning that here on Hive there are a lot of Bots BUT good contents attract anyway readers and true readers that are interested into such topic. So I think that we will face again the balance between bots and readers, the ones commenting and building true interactions.
There are bots that give votes, but I am pretty sure that most of the comments on my posts are coming predominantly from humans :) I don't even get a lot of the bot call comments - which largely annoy me when they don't add something of value to the conversation.
I deleted my Facebook account a few years ago and I find it boring to consume social networks like Twitter. Most of the contents are just temporary that bring no real value to my life. I rather read something that I find valuable that maybe can enhance my life for the future.
Temporary content that will never be relevant again.
Those charts show the Pareto principle at work in the worst possible way. Web2.0 is a cesspool of vanity for sure.
I tried Twitter. Some people were interesting to follow, but there was no real engagement for me.
Facebook is eternally frustrating. On one hand, everyone with whom I might want to keep in touch seems to be there. On the other hand, so is every obnoxious authoritarian and bootlicker.
Here, we own our content. Our hive power represents direct ownership of the platform. Serious engagement and content creation is rewarded. Not perfectly, but certainly not dysfunctionally either.
Yep. And I suspect that it is a very sharp curve in that 25% too.
Follow for follow?
Glad that doesn't happen here (much) anymore :)
And yes, Facebook is a challenge, because family and friends use it. In some way it is "healthier" in the sense you are keeping connection with familiars - nbut I think that has changed over the last decade too. I used to use it for staying informed about dance events and connecting with people I would meet at them - but I don't attend them anymore, so there is no point in being on Facebook.
There is no perfect, but what I like about decentralized Hive is, it is always evolving. If we look at all the social platforms as being considered decentralized media, they change and evolve. But as individual centralized companies, they are more set in their ways. Hive is similar, but it is all built on the same platform, meaning that death of one, is not death and there is a lot of room to pivot experiences, without losing userbase.
If I didn't use it to promote library events, I think I would abandon Facebook altogether. And I like the resilience built into our blockchain ecosystem with multiple frontends and nodes. It is resistant to both censorship and technical failure.