When your own bank stops serving you for fraud
Who do you go to ?
This morning, my own bank declined me to withdraw money from ATM - declining the transaction without any valid reason. It was a long holiday weekend and since we went for the trip, I desperately needed some cash. There were two ATM machines and both declined with same response code. The Security guy who barely understands anything was telling me it could be server issue, try at some other bank ATM :) May be he has heard that and tells the same to everyone who experience this. I did not have any choice, so I thought I would try at some other ATM. While I was driving an unknown call came in which I attended and it was an automated call telling me - "Dear Customer, You are trying to do a transaction of so and so amount from your Debit Card, if it's you then please confirm by pressing 1". I was shocked to stop the vehicle and look at my wallet for the Card - did I leave it at the ATM and somebody is trying to take out money and even knows my password !! To my relief, the card was there in my wallet. I was thinking what to do and then after taking few minutes break, I decided to drive back to the branch and inquire there.
When I asked over the counter the answer was - you will have to call the Customer Care - we don't know why you got a call . So the bank people themselves cannot help you and instead gave a number to dial in. After going through several button press over the call menu, someone joined and after hearing me, she put me on hold for 2 minutes. And then she came back to tell me that, they have activated some fraud modules in my account very recently, so I have to confirm the transaction else the first transaction gets blocked for half an hour. If I do not confirm in the next transaction, then the card gets blocked for the entire day. And is there a way you can disable this ? No Sir, this cannot be disabled. Can you tell me a reason, why you choose my account to activate this so called fraud module ? Because, someone did a fraud in your Credit Card few years back, so we activated it in your Debit Card. Come on - you are forcing me something that I do not want. And that too, you are activating on my Debit Card prohibiting me to take my own money !! That too, you are calling me after I am nowhere near the ATM and the transaction already completed at the physical machine (ATM). If you really want to provide more safety to me, then you should hold that transaction at ATM and call me there and give me my money after I confirm.
Such a poor design of software, being in the same industry, I know how a fraud module should work. Why are you relying on old historical data, that is not relevant at all ? Little did she hear - is there anything else that I can assist ? Yes, please tell me when can I withdraw my money ? Please try after half an hour and please confirm after the withdrawal. It was already more than 15 minutes, so I roamed around and went back after 15 minutes, the ATM did gave the money but then the call came after 2 minutes. And I confirmed, because I wanted to withdraw one more time. And it called again after the second withdrawal - stupid, don't you recognize me now !! I am the same person at the same ATM using the same card withdrawing the same amount (because you can give only 40 notes of 500 denomination) !!
This is where the quality matters. Fraud is a big concern in the financial industry and its very challenging to come up with a fraud prevention mechanism that adheres to evolving patterns of fraud without relying much on historical data, as historical data becomes less relevant. Recently our Data Science team built our patented new solution for fraud prevention that got us the Best Application of AI in a Large Enterprise at the Irish AI Awards. It was featured in the Microsoft pulse blog, you can see it here :
The solution uses the concept of incremental learning to improve itself and decide for itself enhancing its performance or keeping it at the same level as it was previously but not at the cost of disruption of service to the client. Here are some excerpts from the blog :
“Our goal was to be able to have a fraud detection model decide for itself when it needed to change to keep its performance at the same level as it was previously,” explains Hennessy. “Over time, fraud behaviors change and fraudsters do different things, so the historical data becomes less relevant and the model degrades.”
While the AI can identify and adapt to new types of fraud, it also operates within set thresholds, so clients don’t suddenly have to contend with sudden, significant changes made without human intervention.
Probably the people who designed the new fraud solution in my Bank, did not realize these challenges but they should have at least tested it well. From a client perspective, it should be like a silent success without any disruption. Else it breaks the very basic purpose of serving the customer.
Did you ever face such a situation ? FYI, few years back ( may be 5-6 years), someone used my credit card to buy a bike for around 70000/- at Pune, India. I was there for some time and departed from there, just a day before the fraud happened. The bank called me to ask if I did the transaction, and upon me denying, they blocked the card and did not charge me anything for that and would have done some investigation. But that was Credit Card and I still use their Credit Card, they do not call me for even very high value transactions on the Credit card - which has more chance for fraud. May be I should consider changing my bank !!
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In turn, I faced big problems with the banks, one of which forced me to pay about $80, and I didn't even use my account, nor did I make any withdrawals or deposits. I think the solution is not to go to them because they do not have the right to demand that what do you think? I will not pay them
Well, You still need cash at many places, so that is not an option. I do not think, we will see 100% digitization even in next decade, at least in India - people need cash for black money.
I don't have money on this bank, I will change it for an other that's give more advantages to clients. Also it has more annually fees. I think I should in future to turn to crypto market or real banks still necessary?
As long as we have Cash in use, real banks will be necessary.
Fraud module? This is a fancy but really confusing name to deceive their customers. I mean if there was a fraud alert on your account, I think the better thing would be to contact you, other to automatically lock the account. How do one take care of needs in this situation? It think the banking system in some country is far from seamless. Nigeria is one of those countries. If you change your bank, it might be better, it doesn't completely change I guess.
See their response when I contacted them, forget about they contacting me. Problem is that, the people who attend such calls never report these to their higher management - ideally they should have raised issue internally to provide better customer experience.
Hello dear friend @sanjeevm good day
I'm so sorry you've had to go through, just to be able to withdraw your own money from your account.
Banks care very little about customer service, they always do things that go with our satisfaction
I take this opportunity to wish you a happy start to the week
Customer Service is just on papers or for ads may be.
This is really surprising to experience because it sounds funny to me after trying the ATM with several attempts then a call will come in telling me to press numbers am not sure about on my phone, it is not appropriate at all.
Exactly, they should have at least called me before giving all the details about activation of such a new module.
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I once try use my ATM card, It just kept my card. All it said on the screen was to contact your bank. So I did that and they say I was sent a new card. But I didn't receive it. The bank it was activated, it wasn't me. So it was to safeguard my account. The card was then cancel so it can't be used. So no money was taken. I was issued a new card !
That's another bigger problem, you barely can even leave that place, when your card is stuck there.
I'm sorry to hear that you had a major problem but I hope your account will not be frozen. Banks do this when they fear fraud All this is done for our security. There is a temporary problem when a person is traveling and trying to withdraw money, but no response is received.
Should not be at the cost of not serving my necessity.
Something like this happened to one of my bank here in my country
After visiting the bank complaining
At the end of the day I was told someone accessed my bank.. Meanwhile I gave no one access to it
Fraud are increasing with evolving patterns, its good to have safety measures in place, but not at service disruption. They should hold the withdrawal on ATM machine until I confirm on phone, but unfortunately, it does not work that way.
That's bad
All these things wouldn’t happen if everyone were given the option to control their own funds with their keys Aka the Bitcoin way. I don’t like banks and I try everything to avoid having anything to do with them
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Well, we have the keys, isn't it - the ATM password - its a second factor auth, but it should be implemented better way.
You haven't seen CBDCs. That's why it is so important that we fight the system by using blockchain, crypto, protesting and not falling for their propaganda no matter what. It's all leading towards total enslavement and people are so blinded and convenient.
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Well, definitely we are nowhere near a percentage that could change the system. We are fighting, but right now I see, its more of getting approval for them to use crypto. They will always have control on how you use the money. Some debate that they cannot do anything to btc, but at the end, if you cannot spend what you have ( which they control), what is the point of having that money.
Damn! That is poor financial servicing. I thought initially there was a recent suspicious attempt to hack your account and withdraw the funds there that's why they took this precautionary measures to ensure your money is safe not knowing they gave reason based on something they believe happened years back.
Well, I think you should consider getting on touch with their manager of any branch and get it resolved or getting a new ATM card or better still, get another bank account and move your funds to the new one.
I have tagged them in twitter and sending a mail to them to deactivate this feature or module - useless module, because I never use the debit card for any other purpose, so the possibility of it getting hacked is very bleak.
Okay, that's a nice move. Sometimes, these organizations don't care much about your plight or complaints until you take actions.
It sucks to know you had to go through all that inconvenience. It happened with me as well. I was trying to do a big transaction and the call came quite late. I went back to the ATM and even after pressing 1, my transaction did not go through until I called them and to fix this.
I have been defrauded multiple times and learned from my mistakes. Nowadays it's easy to block your credit cards from your app itself. But sometimes even that doesn't work. This is why I like crypto. Such things don't happen although we have issues with scams and hacks but that's another story.
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A debit card should pretty much work without any of these. Unfortunately, the people who design these systems do not think about user experience.
Man that sucks.
I have been on vacation and used my debit card at an ATM and it worked....making me wonder why it did because I didn't tell my institution I was going. I don't hover over my balance because that is like watching my favourite snowman melt for the last few years. ;)
I think I would have switched to a credit card or something. I know there are networking issues, unhelpful numeric error codes and low-paid tellers who are not equipped to handle these issues. Luckily I have not been in that situation in a far off land with no access to cash!
It is great that they are protecting us (read: THEMSELVES) against fraud but they really should have reasonable measures so you can prove it is really you.
They will err on the side of caution and protecting themselves when considering the process.
I hope you were able to solve the issue and it didn't effect your enjoyment of the travel.
I did figure out quickly how to tweak their system though - proving it was me, after they gave me the cash after half an hour:)
You should change banks, to a more secure and better oriented at safety one, TO be honest they called back them because you were part of a "group" of bank accounts being hack, meaning that they noticed because they were expecting more people to get ripoff, rn they are not on one of those waves of stealing so they are not vigilant, yet your card got blocked because someone else must have stolen using that atm recently... Im not kidding on that one, some one stole a client on that very atm minutes before you, that is why they called u xD that is something banks do at times.
They are making things harder and harder for people to live a good successful life. We've seen how easy things can get with crypto. But too bad India is getting such an anti-crypto nation: https://leofinance.io/@finguru/if-you-are-building-a-future-in-crypto-leave-india
Worst thing is it's hard to find people to do high volume crypto tx. Seriously hoping for more folks to start using crypto in daily lives. !PIZZA
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Democracy is slowing becoming autocracy and our people are to blame - they love the free money and vote these govts.
Offcourse, I think HDFC is better.
Government is just discouraging the cash money in hand of "Aam aadmi" , fraud detection measure is just an excuse.
Yes, I too hear, HDFC is ahead in the private banking segment.
That sounds so frustrating. I get very irritated when things like that happen. First, I get irritated with the system not being set up in a sane way. Then, I get annoyed when I am on hold forever only to speak to someone who has so much empathy and cannot help at all. It makes me want to scream sometimes (true story), but I try to take deep breaths.
I fear that the rise of AI chat bots will see a concomitant rise in admission rates to mental institutions. On the other hand, due to budget cuts, institutions cannot afford to house people who are losing their minds, so I might be mistaken.
I really felt your pain with this story!
!PIZZA
Same here, I showed all the frustrations at the branch, they just kept mum.
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"Not long ago I stumbled upon a word ""bankless"" in some article. I have never seen it before but the meaning is obvious :) I believe that banks are sort of an atavism in the modern world and should be replaced with some new formation. Today there are tons of BTC ATMs which supported by the soft from https://atmeye.com/atm-security/ provide top-notch security level.
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