DO NOT read this post unless you actually understand Hive

in LeoFinance9 months ago

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Did you get past security❓

If you are reading this then I guess it is safe to assume that you understand Hive at least a little bit. Well, that is, unless your sneak skill is maxed out and you managed to slither past the big bad bouncer Victor. In that case, my gang of rare ghosts is about to throw you out on your ass. Rules are rules!

You may be wondering why I only want a certain type of Hive user reading this specific post. Normally I welcome any and all people to view/interact with my content, but today I would love to have some answers from people who really know what is going on with something relatively specific on Hive.


I have been pondering what exactly is the best way to spread my vote around.

Is it to...

  • hand out a dozen or less daily 100% votes to the most popular content?
  • upvote in smaller percentages on a wide range of content?
  • vote lots of content all near 100% and drain my voting power drastically every day?
  • create several different accounts and all vote together on one trail?
  • vote early or wait until the last second?

As you can see from just those few ideas, there are a lot of options and surely more that I didn't even bring up.


Here lately my voting power has fluctuated from 70-80% most of the time and I do it all manually. Back in the day, I tried to never let my percentage go below 90% and set up a portion of my votes to happen automatically. Here lately, I notice @ocdb, @appreciator, @bdvoter, @leo.voter, @curangel, and other large curation accounts usually hovering above 90%, sometimes even higher. When I check @buildawhale & @themarkymark they tend to sit at or near 80-85% typically. As of writing this, one of the most well-known manual curators in my eyes, @acidyo is nearly below 60%. Some new users that do not even know that they have a voting percentage or what exactly it even means, often dip down below 25%.

So many numbers. So little answers.


My question(s) is/are 🙋🏻‍♂️

  • Is it more profitable if you keep your vote above a certain percentage at all times?
  • Are there benefits to voting so much that percentage drops to extremely low levels?
  • Does voting too much negatively impact the future of Hive?
  • Can you show me data to prove your point?
  • Are you sure that Victor said you could read this?

Hive is a Web 3.0 social blockchain with massive power and near-endless capabilities. We are growing more each and every day, but with that comes even more of a blur over the technicalities of how everything actually functions.

I'm big into total optimization. I'm going to work as hard as I can no matter what, but wouldn't it be better if my 110% goes further thanks to a few slight alterations to my practices? It is kind of difficult to make that happen if I don't even know what truly is considered to be best practice.

I know that pretty much everybody that I'm in contact with on a regular basis here on Hive would benefit tremendously from understanding the answers to these deeper questions that I am asking today. I hope that some of our more tech-savvy users and developers can chime in here to provide us with some clarity.

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Now it is your turn 🗣

I've laid out some basic questions, but you are more than welcome to explain anything that you think would be important for people on Hive to know about their voting process.

Comment your best advice and explanations for how the process of voting on Hive is best carried out.




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I manually upvote and also use an auto upvoted as well although I need to get on it and update it. You’ve inspired me to do that so my goal is by end of year.

There are days where I can’t get on or life if too hectic, but I love supporting certain folks…that’s where the auto vote comes into play. I also hate thinking of my voting power going to waste.

As for manually curating, lately I’ve been trying to find random folks I’ve never heard of every day, and throw them some love.

So I’m of no real help as I’m
Kinda all over the place with my votes. Sometimes I throw a bunch of small…sometimes full 100%. Depends on which way the wind blows. Lol

I also thought it would be funny to give you 69% on this.

I don't see a ton wrong with auto-votes, however yes something like that does get taken advantage of from time to time. The majority of people are not "killing it" 100% of the time. This means that curating manually is the sure-fire way to give the votes to the people who have earned it rather than someone who earned it once before but has been slipping up lately while you haven't been looking.

I get that whole thing of not being able to get on some days. This stuff requires your full attention to be done in the best way. The same goes for living life and not letting what you have slip away. I automate some of my posts for this reason, but there hasn't been a day that I haven't had the time to at least hop on and curate my feed in quite a long time. The only thing that really gets backed up for me sometimes is replying to comments. This time it took me over a day to reply to you, my bad. Better than never getting a reply at all though.

Twitter allows me to find new users pretty easily. The #introduceyourself tag is also excellent for finding new people worth supporting.

You don't have to be of help to be important or memorable. Just taking the time to say something is leaving a bigger impact than scrolling right by my post. So I thank you for doing that bro.

Btw, 69 is BY FAR one of my favorite numbers... To prove it, I just gave you 69% right back on your comment 😜

I’m really bad with staying on top of replying to comments as well, so don’t feel too bad. I feel like we all most likely juggle a lot with life and all that comes with it and there are only so many hours in the day. Sometimes, shit has to be put on the “to do” list for later. Lol

I'm usually really good at it, but all it takes is for there to be something like a holiday or me being sick and the next thing I know two days have piled up and it's a major task to catch up with everything.

Which is exactly what happened here…lol…4 days late.

Better than not replying, but I still need some work.

My VP has been lower lately due to the GU community after onboarding tons of new people and seeing a lot of new content emerge, it's also one of the nice things with VP that when you need it more it will be there and not deplete instantly but scale down while still giving out decent sized votes and in a way "refresh faster" or at least feel like it. I'll be trying to get it back up, in general I like keeping it at 80-100% as well as it feels nice to give a post that deserves it a max vote and seeing it give as much as possible of your vp.

In general for ocd, though, since we curate and get vote recommendations by other curators manually, we've been having a bit harder time to deplete all of our voting power daily. We could of course just go off the cuff and throw votes around to people who already do well (a question I often get from people is why OCD isn't voting them which often is cause they already do quite well), but we feel it's much better to give people realistic rewards so the platform can scale while distributing the rest to those who could be better rewarded. This is why we have been voting a bit more often on the hbd.funder comments to help stabilize HBD with remaining VP we have since the userbase has not grown by as much as the price of Hive has. If we start seeing a lot new content creators join in each and every community then we will gladly curate those who need it more and not throw votes at the stabilizer but for now we think this is the best outcome and would hope others would feel the same way than just constantly stack votes or autovotes on the same people over and over no matter what they're posting and getting the same usernames on trending daily.

Later on we believe that downvotes will play a great role (if used wisely and well) to make sure posts don't get overrewarded too often or that the same people get rewards all the time as it may discourage certain votestackers to continue voting on the same authors to keep their rewards at realistic levels. In general I think it's something important because if we can't manage this and get angry over downvotes or constantly just attempt to maximize your own posts without caring if others are getting their fair share it'll mean that the way the reward pool works right now won't be able to scale and that we may just as well completely change it or move it over to another layer or reward the tokens and layers the same way we reward witnesses where a certain percentage goes to them from the newly created Hive depending on certain factors.

Anyway, this got a bit lengthy and maybe deep. Just something to think about if we want to make sure curation works as good as we want it for the future of Hive and that it can scale with the tools given to us at the time. I realize there's still a lot of stigma and hate towards downvotes, for some I do understand it as well as they can be used badly just as much (if not more) than how they can be used well - much like upvotes, so I really think more people should get over how they feel about giving and receiving them and just appreciate what they're meant to do and try to use them well and enjoy the process and advantages Hive gives you in general from the upvote rewards. Excessive/malicious downvotes are often times only affect a tiny percentage of users and I'm sure that if someone were to use them "well" but be countered with retaliation than most bigger stakeholders and curators would come to their side to counter them similar to if they were to be downvoted too much.

It'll be interesting to see how the use of them evolves but to answer your question;
how much VP you have doesn't really change how much returns you get since the curve is now linear so I doubt it matters. :P

One of the behaviors that I've seen that's a little annoying is the pancake-pile that happens to some posts that Appreciator goes for. Traf and some of the others with really high vote values will just dump a 100% vote on it just because they are following a high vote they see. Some of the posts that it happens to aren't nearly deserving the 200$+ payout that it looks like (in my humble opinion of course, nothing personal against the account that receives it). Granted, I know the person is happy as shit to get such a large potential payout, I would be too, but that stuff irks me a little bit. No fault to Traf and those other guys with huge stake but don't just pile onto one post is the mindset I'd love to see more of..

I like your philosophy of the good upvote for some people though, particularly new users and accounts. I might try that idea with the communities I am running. It's always great to give new users a good thank-you for coming by!

I agree, it happens to some of our votes as well. There's some times for instance we vote up a post by a newcomer that we think would be nice to get to trending as getting new people there every once in a while wouldn't hurt - only to then see like 4-5 different whales stack their votes and then we get people complaining about how it's overrewarded.

A big issue with this is that re-voting removes all your curation rewards so you can't later go "oh this got rewarded a bit much so I'll change my $80 vote into a $10 or $20 vote cause doing so means you'll get 0 curation rewards and just encourage the voters who stacked their votes later with more rewards (as they'll get your share you gave up). I don't mind downvoting them a bit with my personal account of course but it's not as big to make an impact (as downvotes take a portion out of each upvoter rather than just penalize one of them). Thankfully there's already plans to fix re-voting to not cost the voter all of the curation returns in a future hardfork so will be interesting to see how many will start doing it. That is if they care, cause I think many of those who stack their votes just do it real quick and carelessly or are just autovotes that won't be looking back at what the post ended up in rewards. Similar how many don't care enough to downvote certain overrewarded posts in the first place.

It'll be an improvement for those who do care, at least and what exactly that change will do for voting power is hard to tell right now (i.e. if changing a vote from $80 to $20 will give you 75% of that voting power back or if changing from $20 to $80 will only cost you an extra 75% voting power due to the first vote).

"don't just pile votes onto one post" is the mindset I'd love to see more of.

as @cmplxty said here, this seems like a great move for Hive as a whole. May not be quite as profitable for those big bag holders though. Hard to orchestrate something important like that happening consistently.

Thankfully there's already plans to fix re-voting to not cost the voter all of the curation returns in a future hardfork

This sounds amazing @acidyo. I've wondered if something like this would ever happen. Not sure if there would ever be a way to say... undo an accidental 100% vote and change it to 10% without losing 110% of your voting power. Get what I'm saying there? Kind of hard to explain that bit. Pretty sure that is what you were mentioning at the end.

It's a culture thing for sure. We were able to get rid of the bid bot culture so I think we should be able to help persuade the big holders to be a little more balanced with it all, I would hope!

Looking forward for sure to the ability to adjust a vote up or down and not waste the voting power to do it.

Yep, in fact that accident just happened today (if you've looked at trending). It happens, we're human and it's not like we should discourage manual votes that some times may go wrong so I can't wait for this change especially for the error ones.

Oh wow, I see. seaspect must be feeling on top of the world right now.

Looking forward to the change in voting! I wouldn’t mind increasing the vote on some peoples posts but will occasionally not due to wasting voting power since it counts twice.

Hopefully we can change the culture around piling on the votes!

Those GU Hive babies need your tender care @acidyo.

also one of the nice things with VP is that when you need it more it will be there and not deplete instantly but scale down while still giving out decent-sized votes and in a way "refresh faster" or at least feel like it.

How you put it here makes the most sense. If you stick to voting one way for an eternity, surely that will get old eventually. Adapting on a day-to-day basis is probably going to be the best way to curate manually. Some days could be shit for content and others may be chock full of golden posts.

Having to spread all of what OCD is capable of handing out around Hive is a massive task that surely needs a team of dutiful curators.

a question I often get from people is why OCD isn't voting them which often is cause they already do quite well

As much as it probably hurts OCD's curation rewards to often avoid posts that have already achieved some success with potential payout, it would be so bad for the small guys and newcomers if OCD just hopped on that train towards maximum profit. The curation practice of OCD vs a solo dude like myself just cannot be the exact same since the stake at hand is drastically different and the number of people involved as well.

we have been voting a bit more often on the hbd.funder comments to help stabilize HBD with the remaining VP we have since the userbase has not grown by as much as the price of Hive has.

Is there really any other option at the moment besides letting the extra voting power waste away? It makes sense to put it to use someplace. I feel like I have been seeing people tweet about hbd.funder being bad for Hive. I didn't quite get what they were trying to say though and assumed they were wrong since so many large stakeholders do it. I cannot find the tweet otherwise I'd be linking it here.

Later on we believe that downvotes will play a great role (if used wisely and well). If we can't manage this and get angry over downvotes or constantly just attempt to maximize our own posts without caring if others are getting their fair share it'll mean that the way the reward pool works right now won't be able to scale

Scaling is what will lead to success for Hive years down the road. I know I don't want to just have a few years of success and then dip out. I would love to have continued success and also watch others learn to find that same success here. Winning alone just isn't as good as winning with a team.

To answer your question;
how much VP you have doesn't really change how much returns you get since the curve is now linear so I doubt it matters.

BAM! Thank you for the detailed response and for bringing up several topics of importance.

I personally prefer to spread my vote around rather than dropping massive votes on few people. That’s not the right answer just how I want to do things.

If you vote in the first 24 hours it doesn’t really matter.

As for profitability. It’s pretty much the same but maintaining 80%+ VP will be a lot more consistent curation rewards.

Solid philosophy that many employ. I think with the recent changes, this works well for nearly everyone.

I know you have your method and have been following it for a while now, with slight adjustments here and there when people start posting more. It seems to be working well for you. Voting late (after 24 hrs like you mentioned) is where the big changes in rewards start to happen it seems.

Sounds to me like you're saying that voting until depleted to deficient levels is probably not the best choice. Staying higher in that 80%+ range is what works for you. Of course, there is no one way, many tubes for a vote to flow down.

Thanks for stopping by Marky.

The only time I really saw a lot of people voting down to below 50% was at the outset of the last hard fork when curation was modified and things were insanely skewed lol.

Other than that though, my personal philosophy is to vote on lots of accounts at smaller percentages. Granted my vote isn't worth that much compared to some, which may have an effect, but I think that works well for me.

I could see that voting higher amounts and less often could be beneficial as well. You have less often curation rewards coming in but your curation rewards could be higher.

Checking HiveStats on yours compared to mine, whatever you're doing is working pretty well, you are at 9.1% APR for your curation efforts whereas I'm at 8.9% APR. I don't know how that gets factored into things for your behaviors versus mine (I follow Curangel trail so I have to spend less time focusing on voting and more time on engagement and content)

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Taking a look at Curangel versus Buildawhale, I see some differences but buildawhale is more on consistent voting instead of finding content.

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Overall, I think our behaviors are working out pretty well. I know that with the really high numbers, that difference in 1% means a fair bit of money but overall I think we are in a good spot. Hovering around 8-10% APR is really pretty amazing considering it's voting habits only. With the last economic change on Hive to allow for a first-24-hour window of near-equal split for curation rewards, I think this evened out the playing field a lot and there aren't a whole lot of "big changes" one could make to maximize curation return.

I remember that time during the hardfork when the rewards got reset for that week and it was a mad dash to claim as much as possible. Some people made out like bandits with that.

vote on lots of accounts at smaller percentages.

I think my method is similar to yours, except I do like to throw out larger percentage votes when I feel they are deserved (sometimes by accident.)

I really would love to know how to best increase our curation APR. I have seen mine spike to 12 or 13% months back. I haven't seen it dip below 9 for a while. Some giant accounts who vote regularly have less APR than you and me, but I've seen others with less HP have even more.

I need ALL answers that exist, might have to upgrade my brain's RAM to take advantage of all of that.

Yeah I need to get better at increasing the vote for folks that deserve it. I know that I’ve adjusted my voting behavior to try and stay above 90% but as my vote gets stronger, I’m doing more voting so giving out higher ones here and there isn’t bad!

With getting above 10% and stuff, I think you’ll have to go out there and find content to vote on early and hope no one else votes on it, I think. The more votes it gets, the more things get chopped down for APR. could be off base on that but I think that’s how it would work.

Good luck to somebody brand new to Hive trying to nail down that 15% APR.

I don’t really care about the curation rewards. I upvote 100% almost all the time and on content I like or to show support/appreciation regardless of the rewards

I don't obsess over my curation rewards, but I definitely care some. Look at it this way... Just because you always are the one driving your car, doesn't mean you shouldn't take the time to clean your back seat. At least I think that makes sense.

@xplosive mentioning the payout threshold being $0.02 is major for people who didn't already know. If you want further details on that, you should totally check out this post recently published by @cmplxty.

I pay some attention to my voting power to be able to give at least a $0.01 upvote, because giving worthless upvotes is pointless. My current voting power is 70.30%, and my 100% upvote is currently worth $0.05, so I currently need to cast a 20% upvote to give a $0.01 upvote.

Of course I also know that the payout threshold is $0.02, so if a post/comment have a pending payout less than that, then it will not be paid out, except if others also upvote it to push the pending payout above $0.02.

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My curation APR is at 8.9% so I think it doesn’t really matter that much, some people grind hard and can get from 10 to 12% but I think it ends up being not worth it

Once I saw that my curation APR was 14%, but nowadays it is around 7% and 8%.

I do all of my voting manually.

The only time a user actually losing out on interest is when the bar is at 100%. Hive regenerates at 20% a day.

So, the only rule I have is that I want the bar to be at 90% before I go to bed so that I will have a full half day before i vote next.

If I plan on taking a day or two vacation, I need to get the bar down to 70% or 50% the day before taking the vacation from HIVE.

I find that I usually scan through the new post list an only open about 1 in 20 posts. I usually only upvote about 1 in 5 of the posts I upvote.

It takes me a long time to curate. If I can't find anything to upvote, I upvote my own posts.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

If you're going on vacation, I think it would be more financially worth it to set yourself up for hive.vote and follow one of the trails. That way you maximize your curation but don’t go days or weeks in the future without earning a single hive in curation. Spend all the voting power one day, go away for 4 days and 7 days after that 4 days of not voting and you’re not earning anything. I think it would be better to earn a little bit constantly.

Leaving the percentage at 100% is indeed a big missed opportunity. I understand wanting to take your time with curation, rather than just throwing up say 10% to every post on your feed. That defeats the purpose of curation if you aren't being selective with it.

@cmplxty has a good idea. It could be beneficial to set things up to happen automatically during a vacation. Sure there will be some downtime while you are enjoying yourself, but I never want to be the dude at the dinner table or on the beach just swiping on his phone and liking posts. We must balance our lives with our Hive activity. Neither one needs to be neglected.

As a manual curator, my personal way of doing things is so:

  • I don't dip below 80% because Hive recharges at 20% a day and I'd rather my vote be closer to its max potential rather than lower.
  • I tend to throw larger votes around mostly. Either 100% or 50% on posts, and 25% on first comments, 10% on following comments. Though I guess that's not really curating, per se, just encouraging conversation.
  • I only upvote if the post is new or under 24 hours old due to a change in the curation curve.

According to hivestats, my curation APR is at 9.4% so I guess I'm about average. I think around 10 or higher is considered ideal.

I like the idea of my vote being worth more as well, so letting it drain down too far is something I try not to do. I also don't want to be afraid to upvote lots of different posts during the same day if I see something that I think deserves to be rewarded.

My APR was up to 12% at one point, I have no idea what made it go up that high and sadly it didn't stay there.

Daltano, you ARE the bouncer at the velvet rope. Just a beard in a suit lol.

I let my voting power get ridiculous low for no good reason. I give out a lot of votes, but practicing lower percentages, as to let my power recharge a bit. Im still sort of a newbie anyways, just a quack at the pond.

The answer, is up to you. I think lower percentage, and more votes is the way. Power level that you keep, is probably just preference, or perspective. Depends on how fat of a vote you like to leave for people.

!LOLZ

I’ve been told crocodiles can grow up to 15 feet
but I’ve never seen one with more than four.

@daltono, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of @captainquack22
Use the !LOL or !LOLZ command to share a joke and an $LOLZ. (1/1)

That's such a stupid joke. Thanks.

Should have heard some of the shit I've cracked during the time I've been spending with my family this week. You'd either love it or hate it. Too bad it has all happened off-chain.

I believe I'd be better at sneaking in rather than keeping people from sliding under the radar 😉

Sounds to me like you're voting how you please. That surely is going to result in you being the happiest. Isn't that what is most important in life anyway?

Very passive-aggressive title.

Good job.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thanks, dude. Gotta grab that attention.

I know that if something gets me curious, I'm more likely to look into it. Sure beats this post being titled "How should I vote" or something basic like that. The imagery just adds to the amount of attention something like this may draw.


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