What are your fears surrounding Hive and its tech?

in LeoFinance2 months ago

This might be a bit of a controversial post and I don't want it to cause people to invest/buy more than they can afford to lose (if it can be lost), etc, so please keep in mind that whatever I may say here is just my own opinion (and not fully technically correct, just from what I understand) that I stand by and work towards, it shouldn't be taken as a signal to do anything you weren't willing to do on your own before reading this, or own your own accord.

Also I usually really don't care about these disclaimers, I think we're past the point of trying to warn people and thinking these disclaimers will somehow hold up in court to not make you liable for having shilled some shit projects/nft's that many on Twitter seem to think. Figured I'd mention it here anyway since this post will be a bit different from my other ones.

Let's look at the basics of Hive and how it's evolved lately.

It's easy and cheap to set up a hive witness to help decentralize the network.

Decentralization comes in many shapes and forms, some Bitcoiners think that it can only work through mining, Ethereans used to think the same until they switched to proof of stake and over time we've seen a lot of mix and matches come up but no one being able to balance out the trifecta of blockchain requirements; scalability, security and decentralization. Some coins focus more on scalability; SOL has one of the fastest blockchains around but from what I've heard most block producers only keep part of the chain at any given time since it's already so big only big datacenters can manage to hold copies of it. This isn't great for security nor decentralization.

Shifting back focus to Hive and its DPOS protocol invented by @dan Larimer through Bitshares, this one had scalability, cheap to no fees but decentralization and security were an issue as we saw what occurred on Steem. That said, and what many think to this day, is that what happened to Steem reflects badly on Hive's security and decentralization today but what many fail to realize is that what occurred on Steem is one of the worst case scenarios that could've happened to DPOS and is something that's bound to occur on similar small/cheap chains where a lot of tokens are held up by a few keyholders (exchanges). If you boil it down, it wasn't just that some rich person bought a lot of coins to overtake the network with, he did so by buying from exchanges (price rose back then from 20c or so up to 80c (if I recall correctly)), by buying from the Steemit stake that most of us old-timers remember had annotations of how it was going to be used and how it definitely was not going to be used but was in this case. Most DPOS coins would here already have faltered and security would've gone bust, but due to the nature of Hive (Steem) and the way distribution of stake works (a majority of inflation goes to authors and curators, rest to block producers/vests(hp inflation)/DHF) the community bonded together to fight against these fake block producers that came from the single rich actor attempting to overtake governance. He was close to do so I admit, the downturn in price and many stakeholders being afk and remaining afk it took a while for the community to get everyone back on their keys to rally towards voting the important real witnesses to counter the fake ones, but that we did. The thing that happened next is so unprecedented that I hope is something to never occur again (but even if it did, we're in a better position to fight against it as mentioned later in this text), that the rich actor tricked 3 other exchanges and their owners to use their customers liquid funds to assist him in overtaking our governance. This is something that neither no one thought was possible, but in a perfect world they would've all been held liable for their actions. The good thing to come off this is that it made the reason and solution even stronger to bridge off the old chain and move over to Hive while unchaining ourselves from the centralized chains of Steemit's stake, bad actor's stake and anyone who also willingly colluded and assisted the bad actor in overthrowing governance. Since then Hive has worked on making this event that occurred, as impossible as it was to have occurred in the first place, even harder to be re-created by placing a month delay on governance votes so similar actions to vote in fake blockproducers, exchanges being in on it (or exchange hacks resulting in similar attempts, etc) or any other attempts that we can see coming through regular analytics by reading the public blockchain.

Ever since those events Hive has focused, with a big thanks to @blocktrades' team and other individuals, on scalability even more. It is now cheaper than ever before to host witness servers, full nodes and all kinds of things revolving Hive. Stake is still being distributed and account sizes are growing from all sizes to maintain governance and keep the chain decentralized. I know many have been questioning the way we distribute stake, i.e. the "mining" of new hive through posts, comments and curation but I personally believe we're still too early in Hive's and Crypto's life to decrease or switch it off so it can continue to strengthen decentralization and stake distribution. I get that many think a lot of stake is just being farmed so people can sell it on exchanges, and looking at the data and how much liquid Hive exists on exchanges I can't argue against that, I also can't argue against the selling itself, whether people need the Hive in their daily lives or think they're being smart by selling it for other coins, the fact remains that Hive is still one of the best distributed currencies out there allowing for easy ways to monetize your content, earn rewards for being social, participating in games, projects, layer 2's, etc. If I had a Bitcoin for every person that's mentioned how they mined bitcoin but sold it quickly after or how they heard about it and bought some but sold the next pump and never looked back, I reckon we'd hear a lot of similar stories of people who got in on Steem/Hive and ignored it or those who have been active all along but never built up any stake thinking they can do that later. That being said, the way stake is being distributed on Hive I believe is still on of it's best usecases that makes Hive unique and I'd reckon many other similar chains or platforms in the future will not do it the same way because they wouldn't want to give away control of power or potential profits the way we do here to maintain our decentralization.
I got a bit off track there but in talks about scalability, I don't think I need to tell you how many transactions are processed on Hive on the daily, on top of that how most of them are completely free, now with RC delegations being easily sent out to users to broadcast their own transactions without even needing any stake I firmly believe that there are no other coins out there that work in the same way while still keeping blockproducers hardware running cheap. Just open up https://hiveblocks.com/ and each time you refresh you're greeted by a new block that was produced (happens each 3 seconds on average) and you can see for yourself how many transactions fit in one and are being sent out and this is hardly at any limits the witnesses have set for blocksizes. (You know, the thing Bitcoiners argued for years, resulted in Bitcoin Cash being created which also has billions in marketcap, resulted in a shitstorm of more copies being created, yes, we can switch that just by having top block producers discuss among themselves if it's needed and time to raise it depending on demand, or if RC costs should go a bit higher first before that decision is made as to not create a blockchain that's too big needlessly, etc)

So there you have it, you have security, scalability and decentralization all in one package working and evolving for over 6 years. So now let's look into how Hive could "die", aside from the scenario mentioned above where a bad actor would attempt to overtake governance again and in the worst of the worst cases that he somehow would against all odds and preventive measures we've put in place do it successfully once again, well guess what, we'd just do the same thing we did on Steem once more. We'd filter out the accounts that caused this to occur, we'd switch over to a different chain ID and we'd thank the bad actor for causing massive volatility in our price, for removing a ton of stake they bought/collected to centralize Hive with from our supply and we'd march on again like we are doing now. At this point I think I'd challenge people to attempt to do this as there's nothing the community can lose that way.
Other factors could include things such as, the blockchain is becoming too big in size, witnesses are running their servers at a loss, investment isn't coming in or there's no interest to continue producing blocks. While I did mention that these things have been focused and worked on in the past couple years, you could theoretically assume that we'd get so much more activity to increase block size but it's quite hard to imagine that the increased activity/users wouldn't result in Hive's evaluation in price going up. I mean, look at where we are, we're quite at the bottom already and have been hovering around rank 200 on coingecko for a while now, the upside to Hive is so much bigger than the downside, an increase in activity could surely not mean that the token would drop so much to make it impossible for block producers to continue keeping the chain decentralized and running. Even in the worst case scenario that they'd drop off, I'm sure there's plenty of back up witnesses that want to "invest" in Hive by running at a loss for a while, you know, the same way most Bitcoin and Ethereum miners buy equipment, pay for electricity and wait for the markets to turn before they even attempt to get their initial deposit back. Compared to them Hive witnesses have had it quite well over the years, even many backups.

Okay then aside from scalability and witnesses getting rekt, what if users just stopped using Hive? Well this is probably the biggest "fear" if you will and what results in not just Hive but most blockchains going down in value and fleeting to irrelevancy. One thing to note is that for most blockchains it is quite hard to just "die", many who barely have any users anymore still exist and operate and most of them don't do what Hive does. The solutions it provides aside from the reward mechanism/stake distribution is still something that's becoming more and more important day to day with tech giants and governments attempting to suppress information or silencing certain voices. On hive, even though it doesn't mean that any and everyone has to be rewarded with stake, one thing they can be sure about is that their voice won't be blocked/shadowbanned/removed because that's something that is literally not possible since no witness would ever agree to remove data from the blockchain itself because they'd quickly be thrown out of the super majority who can make such decisions. In terms of front-ends, some may block certain accounts from being viewed and interacted with on their end, it would depend on why, who's strongarming them to do so, but matter of a fact is that this content could still be shown in other places where the strongarming wouldn't have any jurisdiction in DMCA'ing or forcing the front-end owner to censor such accounts/content. This is real value that exists on Hive for basically free, the cost to create an account is currently set at 3 Hive, many services or users/stakeholders themselves offering accounts for free and witnesses will continue to produce blocks with any and all content in them in the form of text while we're working on layer 2 solutions to make images, gifs, videos, etc immutable as well (look into what @threespeak is working on).

Okay so this got quite longer than I intended it to be, but aside from the "omg I got downvoted" when in reality 99% of them deserved it for one reason or another, or the "I'm not getting any votes" when most of them there also don't really deserve it, which I think as a curator who's around the chain most of my waking hours can say I have a good overview of most curation that occurs here. What fears do you have about Hive that wouldn't make you either wanna focus more on it with your time/sweat equity/effort, your money in terms of investing for long term, or just to share it broad and wide? Because bottom line, what Hive needs and will thrive from is just more users that use it just like they use any #web2 platform these days and we all know that number is in the billions. Users that keep some of the stake they receive in rewards as inflation keeps dwindling down over the years, users that stay active and consume content, maybe POSH a little here and there, use our dapps, games and any and all future projects and services that'll exist on here since startup is so cheap and easy and the instant connection to a community to use your product/invest in you that's quite underrated in my opinion compared to other chains, on top of it all the whole "give and take" nature where it's not just founders and starters getting all the rewards but everyone involved and participating in most things on Hive do.

Trust me, there's so much more to Hive and this tech that I could talk about in this post, things that make me hopeful, things that I have high ambitions about and believe the potential is huge to unlimited and all kinds of things I already see it improve and assist make the world a better place considering how borderless the tech is and connects anyone and everyone without the restrictions in place in centralized platforms, but no one would read that post in one sitting and I'd probably have to be up all night finishing my thoughts onto it and it still wouldn't fit everything onto that post. So I'll just stop here and check what your thoughts are on the question asked. Thanks for reading, those who did. Including more pictures into the text as requested in previous posts. :P

All images except the banner below taken from pixabay.com, keyword searches: blockchain, robin hood, death of chains.

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As bad as what happened at Steemit was, it gave us all a great lesson. Hive withstood that attempted takeover and used the lessons of it to grow stronger. We are in a better place now because of it, so in a sense I suppose we should be thankful to Justin Sun.

I'd like to set up a witness eventually. I've been here for 5 and 1/2 years, I'd like to start giving back more. I think right now in my personal life I am not in a place where I can dedicate the space or time to that, but it is something I'd like to do in the future. Glad to hear it's getting easier and easier to set up!

Okay then aside from scalability and witnesses getting rekt, what if users just stopped using Hive?

This is certainly my biggest fear. And that we won't grow fast enough to replace them. Similar to how Japan is shrinking right now, with more people dying than being born. This is one reason I am really in favor of making the Hive sign-up procedure much easier than it currently is. You mention the sign-up fee. I think 3 Hive is a fine price, and as you mention many do it for free, but I still think it is just way to complicated for most people. The average grandma can sign up to FB in seconds. But on Hive... she won't even get past figuring out what all the keys are for.

I don't worry about people whining about being downvoted. That's a small minority. People being discouraged because they post great article after great article but never get more than a few cents is a little more concerning. I know many curation projects are trying to help this problem, and ideally these will grow more in the future. But it's the complexity of signing up and figuring out how to manage the keys that concerns me. Of course that seems simple to me and you, but to people unfamiliar with crypto it is very confusing.

I fully agree about the signup process, we were actually in talks a few months ago about providing different options for that to allow users to jump in and use hive instantly while figuring out keys and an immutable account later, unfortunately it got stuck somewhere but I don't think it's something too difficult or expensive to create so will have to try and move it forward if no one else is going to.

About the latter thing you mentioned, I think stake distribution is going to help there more as well, possibly with front-ends having smarter recommendations than having to rely on curation projects to both recommend you new users and make sure to curate them.

I feel like if an additional easy option exists it will be something like Binance...They own all our keys and we don't have to worry unless Binance gets hacked. That could be the account for the grannies on Hive so they can jump right in.

I've just read your post in whole. whoa

I still believe HIVE will be the next big thing after the Internet.

I got curious with what happened on Steem. I just joined Hive in April 2022 so please don't judge 😅
I only know it has something to do with 51% as it was reiterated too many times in HIVE whitepaper.

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It's a bit different on Hive, basically you need 17 out of 20 witnesses to perform a hardfork, but I guess in a way you could also say a 51% attack if more than 50% of active stake were to vote for fake/overthrowing block producers which happened on Steem. A great article I can recommend going through the whole ordeal is this if you have the time, it's much better written than my post as well. ^^


Thanks a lot for your post @acidyo. Your post made clear things we didn't have any idea of.
You explain in a way that we can understand more about decentralized content, sharing, curation, stakes, transactions, costs, etc.
So, to consume less should we rather wait and buy more Hives to make fewer transactions, giving more thought to these transactions and more importance? (not to abuse)
On the other hand, if I may, playing with small sums, the delegations, staking and seeding or investing in that coin or this coin with ridiculous sums allows us to learn and understand how to on different contexts like differences between delegations and stakes, RC and upvotes, uses of downvotes, or should one rather use delegating or staking? 50/50 to check, then make a decision, etc and, all that at obviously lower costs and gains.
Content sharing, curations, comments, replies, photos, drawings, themes, contests, music and (games less for us) are good ways to also encourage people's creativity. And give those values and eventually measure these values, in arts, writing, sculpting, story-telling as well as and not the least socializing by sharing with people all around the globe we'd never have been able to is quite amazing.
Even culturally rather than spending time playing on a phone. This platform allows us to reconnect with things like economics finances and trades with @leofinance @leodex and others but also poetry literature photos and much more with @ecency @peakd and more, or even maths and sciences I saw with @stemgeeks
And all this added to the opportunity to deal with cryptos, currencies, coins etc and make some profits, and hoping mafias, corrupted criminals and thieves won't spoil the efforts made by all these creators os @steem and @hive and the communities of people from everywhere to create a way to enjoy our shares with others together in a decentralized way not owned by crooks but by plenty, by most, ideally enough users I reckon?

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Hive has evolved quite a bit indeed. The Ninja-mined stake was a big burden back in the Steemdays, that's for sure. It had big letters on it "security risk". I'm still amazed and impressed by the whole community, especially the big guys who made things actually happen: shout out to these main figures who played a big role.

Even though we've repelled centralization, and made it more difficult to have a hostile takeover, centralization starts with a big movement from 1 or a few individuals. I guess my biggest concern /fear would be that people respond too emotionally in situations where we should respond objectively and if required; put our differences aside.

I'm also concerned about bad actors who create "dummy" dApps, with fake transactions, to overflow the network. I believe this was seen on EOS a few years ago, the entire network was frozen due to a fake airdrop that responded quite heavy on network usage.

If users stop using Hive, I think Hive might go deflationary on its own, wouldn't it? The With the reward-pool not being distributed completely, and blocks keep on being produced.

Oh well, I'm not seeing this happening anyway.

PS: you need to hit that ENTER bar a bit more often lmao. I had to format it in word xDDD

We are a long way from not having enough resource credits to go around, but what happens when that’s no longer true? Ten thousand active accounts, and there’s plenty of surplus RCs. What about ten million active accounts?

These are all adjustable, similar to APR %, witnesses can adjust block size or RC costs as far as I know tho I'm happy if someone reading this may correct me. I think RC's even have a flexibility of their own where they adjust based on recent demand, I know that when claiming account credits if I were to use a big account, say @ocdb to claim hundreds in one go and before I do that @acidyo was saying I could claim 40 accounts, it would definitely affect it to after the ocdb claims show I can only claim 20-30 accounts at this time. Same thing goes for RC for comments, votes, custom json's I believe.

Normally, I wouldn't have commented because I love shadow reading but I can't help but admire how you took so much time and effort in explaining and narrating your perspective, even with the questions asked by users in the comment section. Secondly, thank you for this post! I grabbed a lot of things that I had no idea about since I was on hive. For this, I have no fear whatsoever to stick with hive because I have witnessed a lot of defunct platforms I thought would stay much longer.

Leaving aside the past and what happened to Steemit right now I confess that I'm not afraid that Hive will end, simply because I see it as stable and I think it's a project that will have many developments that will keep it growing.

As it grows, the system will be found to maintain the ecosystem as it is at the moment ... at the moment the concern that I believe we must all have is to spread the use of Hive and make people understand how it works and what is 'and behind.

As I said, the beauty here is that we are all responsible in some way for the life and growth of this fantastic ecosystem!

I guess my greatest fear is that we will plan a great party with good food and good drinks, but "few" will come. I feel like that is where we are at times.

Maybe our food and drinks really aren't good enough. Nah that's not the case, but it seems that way sometimes.

So I guess my greatest fear is lack of increased adoption and getting passed by the crypto train. I realize that things are better than ever in this respect, but it is still my biggest fear. The nuts and bolts of the chain are pretty good.

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It probably comes down to disuse for me. There is so much potential here, but at the same time, people's attention spans are short, moving from one thing to another fast. I believe that what could save Hive is the ability to have so many varied applications and experiences, so there can continually be new things for everyone and, new innovation, without having to leave the chain. But still - it the fear is there.

I firmly believe that there are no other coins out there that work in the same way while still keeping blockproducers hardware running cheap.

That is incorrect :P

I find it interesting/odd that no one here on Hive seems to have keept track of KOINOS/KOIN when they first decided to announce their blockchain on Hive several years ago. They launched mainnet in December and have fantastic development there so far. Compared to Hive they are basically starting at 0 (small community, only a handful of dapps, one Cex listing etc.), but their consensus of proof of burn is really innovative. They also claim to be "the first truly free blockchain" on their twitter which I first thought was not true (>Hive). But they don't have an account creation fee, so in that sense they are right.

Anyway, I would really like to have someone look deeper into it and compare it to Hive.

Also, they just announced that #splinterlands has given them a lot of $$$ to help fund KoinosPRO which seems like splinterlands is thinking about developing on their chain as well.

Their distribution idea was great but effectively rekt by the increasing eth fees at the time shooing off most "regular" people who'd mine it at home for a good distribution. Their decision to do it through eth rather than say hive was understandable considering the amount of users eth has but still failed to generate a lot of buzz to actually get a lot of unique people to mine it, I've heard and confirmed stories of people mostly mining it with amazon servers and other datacenters, some even illegally which I don't wanna get into now, but that was something thay bummed me out about it among some other things. I wish them luck and hope things go well but there's too many unfairly distributed coins out there and I stay mostly involved with hive things. The burn mechanism also doesn't seem like something innovative considering literally most Shiba copies/bsc shitcoins revolve around somw form of burning fees to transact with, I don't think that's a main selling point nor should it be but I may not know enough about the details.

That said I have respect foe the team and people involved that were part of the steemit team thus wish then well and hopefully our paths can cross again at some point to collab on making the world a better place.

okay thanks for the input. Although I have now often noticed that there are pretty big misconceptions on both sides regarding the blockchains. I would really like to see a bigger discussion here since I am involved in both projects, but lack some deeper insights. For example, is modular upgradeability and having smart contracts on L1 better than what Hive has chosen? I guess both chains can just continue to run and experiment and evolve and we will see what happens :)

I think my greatest fear on Hive us that I have no fear 😂😂😂💔
Surely, I know this is a rather good-bad thing cause really even though the instances you pointed out could hardly happen, they still could happen.

Anyways maybe I'm just being paranoid 😂😂😂

GO HIVE !!!!

Is there a protection from people that buy influence for money on hive? I mean someone who could buy a ton of HP and start down-voting people he don't like. Theoretically, if HIVE became a true competition to some big corporation, they could easily buy enough influence on hive to make this place not fun at all, or am I missing something?

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If they bought the stake themselves they'd get a bit more leeway in what they'd do with it (compared to leasing) but not much more as in, if they're directly using it to cause harm on things most other stakeholders/community disagree with the usage I don't think they would mind to lose a little bit of curation APR while bonding together to counter the bad downvotes or bad upvotes for that matter.

Well it would still cost them to lease HP, even if not a lot. Actions like these would quickly drive attention to it and other stakeholders could help in countering the downvotes and in many cases vote up the victims more than they would've received before the downvotes. While most people shy away/don't wanna get involved in such drama there's plenty of stakeholders who'd step up in helping out if they see that value is being driven away unfairly on chain.

If I was trying to hurt hive and had a substantial budget at my disposal. I could for example pick a topic that most people in society generally are divided about like something about race, religion, or some political issue and attack a big group of people, down voting their posts, destroying their accounts and scaring them away from the platform. The remaining group of hive users that agree with me on this particular issue is clapping and helping me. I raise a big stink - make a bad image for the whole platform, scare a lot of people away, after a while I can change the topic, target different group and do the same. Only purely theoretical.

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That's the thing though, if your downvotes are based on attacking certain people due to race, religion or political belief it would be the giveaway to the reason of your downvotes. It doesn't matter if half the platform agreed with you, 90%+ wouldn't agree that it's reason to attack them through downvotes based on opinions, etc. There are downvotes that exist based on such things and have occurred over time, personal attacks, vendetta, grudges, etc and while most of the time they are shortlived, it causes a lot of attention towards it to let everyone judge by themselves if they are warranted or if they want to step in and counter them. This is one of those cases where it's good to have whales or some centralization of stake as they are more likely to come to the aid of whoever is being wronged.

Another great thing about hive is that all your actions are public, on reddit for instance you could have an army of accounts or users stalking and downvoting anything you post or say but no one would know except the perpetrator or an admin who just happened to look at the central database and notice such activity which I doubt happens towards regular users often. Here anyone could not just see it and act upon it themselves but also bring attention to it from the rest of the community.

again this is nothing guaranteed, similar to rewards so I'm not saying "no damage would occur" but then again users shouldn't take rewards for granted or assume that pending rewards means it's already in your pocket. With a shared ecosystem wide currency though it's in everyone's best interest to act upon and make sure that such attacks don't occur and more importantly don't keep occurring to drive people and traffic away.

I think one of the main advantages of block-chain tech is trustlessness. We should KNOW that the system is designed to minimalize abuse and not trust that the whales will be on the right side of the argument etc.

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My fear is that Hive and other cryptocurrencies are still dependant on the FIAT in order to prove and keep their value. When we will be able to buy something with HIVE or HBD, just because a product is valued at 1 HIVE, at that point we can talk about real adoption and valuation of crypto.

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💪🐝😎🤙 yup, so much goin on hive! I don't think I even know about most of it..

Always new things happening too.. so cool!

In fact, my only fear on hive is Whales. Any person who can influence the economy of an entire ecosystem by selling their share is a danger in my eyes. Especially when the Bitcoin is down, it is almost like a prediction of faith but as soon as bitcoin goes under 18k Hive trading goes up and the hive price plummets, something that ONE year ago dint happen, so what is wrong? That people are trying to get rich and that might one day kill hive as a whole.

I don't really understand, you're scared a whale would sell his stake when price is low? I'd say that'd be great for potential distribution to more unique holders on exchanges and later possibly on chain. Sounds more like you're scared how it would affect the price for some time in an effort of making the most out of your own selling? (Not to sound personal/judgy here, but what much does the price matter short term to be scared of it?)

You can imagine that there's quite big holders of Bitcoin and Ethereum too, they also could randomly decide or get hacked and sell 100k-500k ethereum in one go if they wanted, is that something bitcoin/eth holders are afraid of you think? Keep in mind that for each sale there's a buyer, what may seem as a fear to some may be a blessing to others to get in cheap with a big bag into a new currency.

My fear to be precise as I see that I failed to communicate it to you is that they can change the global price at will, something that could have a "luna drop" danger to it, do remind that a single big sell changed Luna coin price from 100$ for coin to 40$, making that a loophole to be abused and someone else, as how luna labs named it "a conspirer" decided to hit them hard by selling their share and breaking the luna economy for good... If a big enough whale decides to destroy a coin, it can, and that is an example of it, yeah luna system had a ton of weakness than others don't, that hive do not have. Yet the fact remains that if someone wanted to hurt hive as a whole it can, in fact I have always believed that Justin Sun would one day come back and try to do so just because we turned our back to his kinghood.

Yeah I dint buy luna/terra labs explanation, I still don't, but I mean that I fear the big whales, because if they wanted, they could destroy most of the content creation on hive in a single hit if they are willing to do so.

Sorry for my crappy English, I'm doing my best to improve it.

That's quite a different story and difficult to compare to Hive. I believe some big players noticed how Luna worked and what capital was required not just to make it implode but to also short it before the implosion to make the most out of it crashing, along with the rest of the market heading towards a downturn, institutions being over-leveraged, etc, etc. Hive or more importantly HBD is capped, that cap was increased recently based on how it's priced to Hive's marketcap but even so if the price drops low enough it stops printing. Luna didn't have this feature and kept printing constantly which caused the supply to increase by thousand if not tens of thousand fold resulting in the massive price crash.

On top of it all Hive doesn't have any future's contracts, as far as I know Binance has a 3x margin option for it which isn't a big deal for anyone trying to manipulate price down with a lot of capital. For what it's worth Hive also is "connected" in a way to the rest of the markets, so if Hive is showing to be an outlier to the rest of the market, and others realize that there's really nothing wrong/no change to its security or how things are running, they're going to be buying it as it looks like a good deal that will eventually correct back making it harder and harder for anyone attempting to manipulate price down, not even considering people here who may have money laying around wanting to get back in at a certain price. I just think your theory is a bit impossible/improbable and anyone trying to either sell hive this low and on top of it manipulate it downwards more in an effort to "destroy it's reputation" or morale, it's going to cost them a lot while at the same time risking a lot (short squeezes).

If big selloff's happen at the top or when markets are looking more bullish, the volume's there are a lot higher too, people have more profits to trade with and trade they will, there's been no lack of trading volume for Hive and similar altcoins on exchanges over the years and they've only kept growing, you can see this in hive's marketcap by comparing the daily trading volume's at the top or leading up to it compared to today. It's all quite speculative and a bit unreasonable fear in my opinion. JS barely even seems to be aware of Steem let alone holding a grudge and more importantly holding Hive still to attempt to sell it off to get back at it.

I guess it is more of an unfounded fear that I have based on the trauma of living in Venezuela and seeing whole "working economies" die off for "socialism" So i might be just paranoid and untrusting in all economies just because of that, still I loved the answers and how you addressed those fears, I think they are now unfounded and non-possible at all, thanks for clearing my head on those things :)

Btw I do guess that it's a blessing to others, getting a good deal when accumulating hive is one of the reasons we have an internal market at all, even if I like to save in hbd because I'm fearful of fluctuations, anyway I love how you explained every little detail btw, just to note that I loved the effort to explain it in simple words.

There's quite a lot of things that impact markets, it's a bit hard to put all of them into words or even remember them all. As you say, though, the efforts to make HBD stable that happen daily should be something that positively affects Hive and also allows users on chain to counter if someone were to attempt to generate such an attack you mentioned. The volume's on chain aren't as big as on exchanges but with more HBD, more usecases to holding HBD and a more stable price which will eventually result in a bigger HBD supply it should get easier for us on chain to act and mitigate such attacks even if no one here uses exchanges actively which is definitely not the case and will remain that way for years to come (unfortunately as I'm not a fan of exchanges or holding coins there).

I did not expect this answer at all, using HBD stabilizer to actually defend the coin was something I never figured out but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense, at least so someone cant exploit the same problem with the exchanges and luna/terra. Now the effort to make it stable daily is something that most Hive users do not really understand, I have read plenty of materials already yet I still wonder about it from time to time, how the control of printing in each side can actually control the general price yet I was just expressing my fear about whales tempering with the price of Hive, now that you addressed it and showed me arguments I'm more confident in Hive than before, Btw, If You were to save hive, would you keep it as HP or would you pass it to hbd and get it to savings? I find both choices to be equally valid.

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Well, I managed to read everything that you wrote. I joined Hive in 2020 right after the fork but dabbled with steem previous to that as well.
In my experience, things have changed drastically since the time I joined to what is happening now. The decentralized social media narrative has boomed in a big way last year as you have mentioned. I do not have knowledge on the technical scalability and resource credits as much as other may have. From users' perspective there are a couple of notes I want to highlight.

  1. The focus on earning crypto and decentralization is sometimes stretched too far

What I mean by this is not to bash the reward system and decentralization aspect of the platform. It is to simply mention that users will use a product if it is easy to use and if they can socialize and engage. Earning crypto is nice to have opportunity. I used to be a part of Cent- an ETH based social media platform- before Hive. The concept was very similar to Hive where you post your content and earn ETH as reward. I tried but could not continue simply because there were not enough users to interact with. And, earning crypto can be a put off sometimes when you compare yourselves with others. I know one should never do that but it comes very naturally when you have the earnings displayed.
May be it is helpful to welcome users to engage and interact but not focus on earning too much. That way we will get the regular crowd first. If users want to join for decentralization then they will join the platform if we give them a good product. Look at @dbuzz , they have developed an amazing app but they may need more users to use it. if there was no earning aspect attached to every post, many people would have used it.

  1. I forget the second one - :P
    I think I was trying to make a point around product efficiency. Hive as a blogging platform may need a revamp and a marketing push to reach out to the general mass out there.

Not sure if my rambling makes sense to the Hive OG like you but it is a perspective from a user who is here for close to three years.

Wow that was a bit of a read, but extremely great points.

Hive has one of the best all around use cases in crypto. Sure these fears are valid, but as long as we, the community, keeps trying to add as much value to the chain as possible, it will flourish.

It’s a marathon not a sprint. Because the core community sees it that way, is why we are still here and there are more and more things being developed to continually add value!

Sounds like lessons have been learned. Hopefully, we won't repeat these mistakes here. I guess, it's something new technology always has to go through but in the end, it's our responsibility to have thorough records of these mistakes in the same way we have historic records. So that these mistakes don't constantly come back and bite us in the ass.

I don't have fears for Hive, but I do have fears for the tribes.

I think the tech and mostly everything around Hive is awesome, what we lack though is marketing and user retention.

First of all we need to make the first steps of everyone to be easy as hell. From sign-ups, understanding of what's going on and how to basically do everything.

Then we need to invest hugely in marketing from every side. We need marketing companies, niche influencers that actually know what's going on and not those wannabes, mouth-to-mouth, universities, events etc etc. We need to do this as organized as we can.

We don't need to only attract users and investors we need to attract people that will build dapps like splinterlands that will then bring more people over. If for example we had just 5 splinterlard dapps in terms of size i believe it would be a whole other picture.

Then constant education of how people can earn and what they can do. Some people don't leave because it's hard to navigate, or write a post. They are from countries in Europe, America, Canada that by earning some cents or 1$ from a post that may take 1-2 hours to create it's a waste of time. We need to provide other or multiple ways for these people to earn and educate them, heck just make them investors by 20% in holding hbd

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A long post, but worth every word.

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I keep on telling @bhoa about this that...it would take a lot for you to be a hated figure based on your ideologies on Hive...Although Hive has a lot of left leaning people, there are a good number of those who lean to the right. Overall we enjoy true freedom of speech as long as you don't do it in an attention whorish way, I think people can align to that.

I think one person owning majority votes on the blockchain could be the first step in everything going wrong.

I am glad I found your profile. Really. So many explanations and thoughts to elaborate I have been looking for since my first advent here.

In my opinion, stakes, tokenomics and blockchain related topics are making Hive one of the most promising (and already existing) ecosystems in Web3. I truly mean that. I work as a Tokenomics and Strategy consultant for different projects (and have done many so far) and I really like spending some time posting contents here curating and commenting because I feel I am somehow contributing to the development of a healthy system.

The biggest fear I have is about onboarding of new users. It could be great to have track of the number of users (total), the number of users that per month perform some minimum interactions or actions to understand how in total and how actively the Community is growing.

My idea and question can be something like: can we integrate Hive into other blogs as well, or should be other blog come here? May it be possible to give them a sort of personalized domain (like in Medium) so they can evaluate using Hive ecosystem as well as their Company's blog?

Personally for me, the last time I was on Hive was about 7-8 months ago.
You might be wondering why I left or stopped visiting. Well, I just got to know about Hive blog around that time and I didn't want to commit much but wait to see how far it will go.
There was another blog similar to Hive that I was also monitoring their progress.
So yesterday, I decided to check what's going on with Hive and the other one, had folded up while Hive keeps thriving.

So if you will ask me, I will say Hive is going to last in this decentralized space.

"More images" but longer text too (Hahaha) Sorry for the laugh, but you make it sound so funny that you mention it! I want to clarify that I have more than a year exploring Hive, however I consider that I am still in diapers in this, here there is always something new to learn about cryptocurrencies, tokens and the rest of the content, therefore, I am not worried about the length of your posts because I always get to the end anyway (I hope that doesn't sound erotic hehe). It's really like that, I'm just getting to know this space, and still, the learning is growing.

That last thought:

"...there's so much more to Hive and this tech that I could talk about in this post, things that make me hopeful, things that I have high ambitions about and believe the potential is huge to unlimited..."

It made me remember an entry I had in a contest on #ladiesofhive a few days ago where I wanted to express something like that. So I confirm that I totally agree. Doubts and concerns will always be there, reminding me that we must invest more effort in improving every day. I follow you now! Greetings!

Great read. Pretty lengthy but informative.

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