RE: Decentralising Health & Food! Why Real Christmas Spirit Means Treating Food As Medicine & Farmers Like Doctors... Stick With Me Here :)
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
Have you ever worked in agriculture? They make massive implements specially designed to spread rockdust, lime, potash, ash, strategic combinations. There are implements that pulverize rocks that already exist on the land turning them into dust that goes right back into the soil in one pass. And if you don't do something about these rocks they stand a chance of destroying your million dollar combine harvesters and planters.
Ever heard of something like sweet clover nitrogen fixation or cover crops in general? What about minimum tillage practices? The basics of crop rotation?
Ever seen a manure spreader before? Pretty common practice to spread good ole organic shit on the fields...
Do you really think a farmer would spend millions purchasing land just to destroy it or have it turn to dust and blow away?
"The farmers are clueless" LOL!
I have known farmers since I was a child and have always lived around them, currently I am surrounded by farms on all sides - but I don't have a job in that industry - I do grow my own food to some extent.
That maybe - though I have never seen them in Britain where I am. Not all rockdust is created equal.
Again, not all rocks are created equal and not all rocks have the necessary trace minerals. The crushing of rocks here and there to protect machinery is not the same as carefully treating entire fields in a measured way to achieve specific goals over time. Top ups are necessary with rockdust, which cannot be achieved by random rock crushing.
Yes. You cannot rotate nutrition that wasn't in there to begin with.
Yes, again, manure can only contain what was fed into the animals to begin with (and processed equivalents). Trace minerals are mostly missing at this point and so not in most manure.
That is exactly what has happened in some areas - documents going back to the 1030s in the US make clear that this was considered a national threat at that time due to how common it was becoming. Nowadays remedies have been introduced to some extent but ancient top soil has already been lost long ago in most areas of commercial agriculture.
You are welcome to show me farms that use broad spectrum rockdust on a commercial scale - I am interested to see. In my experience, in Britain, Australia and the US it is rare to find a farmer who even knows what rockdust is in the context I am point to, let alone has converted their farm to use it. There are obviously millions of people involved in agriculture and I am sure that there are a minority who know and who use it (without using synthetics), but while I don't have data on that, evidence shows me that the number is tiny.
Let me put it this way, based on your response, you have very little experience, if any. I can tell. I challenge you to visit Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba, maybe even North Dakota. Travel around, and call every farmer you see, Clueless. I know how much you like to argue. You'll lose that argument, every time. Then narrow it down to the organic operations. Call them, Clueless. You'll lose that argument. If they're clueless, urasoul, you're on a level below that.
Agriculture has come a long way. And it takes one hell of a lot more than rockdust to keep the soil healthy, and that dust is not magical dust. It's made from some of the most common shit on earth. If it's formed naturally, that's a little more rare, but requires the destruction of the environment in order to get it, but it's no different than mechanically ground up stone. It's not very efficient all by itself. Those other things I mentioned, and several I didn't, combined, are far more efficient when it comes to keeping soil healthy. Plenty of plants are grown for the purpose of working into the soil, for instance. But unfortunately I don't have time to school you.
Now, I realize some places around the world do things differently and have made mistakes in the past. But I'm certain even those farmers have more experience with this than you.
We're all surrounded by farms and farmers, and many people know farmers. If my neighbor is a lawyer, does that make me knowledgeable about the law? No. And having a small garden in the city? That's like one sack of potatoes, a bag of corn, maybe five large salads. That's not agriculture. The urban centers would starve if the 'clueless' farmers stopped working and the city people planted gardens.
See all that bagged soil in the garden shop? Can you imagine what the environment would look like outside of a city if everyone trucked their dirt in instead of the food? Soil that would constantly die and need replacing. And instead of rain, you use pipes? The world would be a dry desert in no time at all.
I'll looking out the window. I see a frozen orchard. I can't even remember the last time I bought an apple. I grew up farming. Not a large farm. Several times, on and off, seasonally, I've worked for a guy who operate a rather large, several thousand acre, certified organic operation. You're probably not even aware a certified organic operation uses far more fuel and far more land that something that isn't certified but still chemical free, yet yields far less actual food. I read a lot of opinions on the internet about farming coming from folks like you with similar views. You guys don't know shit.
Happy holidays!
I am referring to being clueless on the topic of soil regeneration, remineralisation and typically the food soil web. Obviously saying that all farmers are clueless is a generalisation that is not 100% accurate. I was referring (in a lazy way) to the general level of awareness and actual behaviour based on the level of awareness that demonstrably most farmers have on this topic - in the areas I am aware of on Earth. As stated, you are welcome to provide evidence of farmers using the full spectrum of trace minerals in their soils - I am not aware of many at all.
Geologists I have read have theorised that part of the reason that the soils are depleted is that we are 'due' an ice age, which tends to redistribute trace minerals over the land once again. Typically, due in part to human farming practices, the minerals wash out of the land and into the oceans - which is where they remain due to not being able to be lifted out as part of the natural water cycle.
I never said that rockdust alone is sufficient to maintain healthy crops and I never said the rockdust is magical. I said that it contains what we need to have healthy bodies - that is all.
Un-natural rockdust is not going to have the minerals in it that we need, so there is generally no point in adding it to soil. I am referring to the rockdust used for crop support:
The rockdust that is used in Britain mostly comes from specific quarries in Wales or Iceland, that hold the relevant stone. I am not aware that there is any shortage and while I prefer that the environment is not disturbed - the synthetic, oil based 'fertilisers' are highly polluting in their manufacture. I doubt that rockdust manufacture is more harmful than oil based fertiliser production.
It is literally the only way that I have ever seen to remineralise the soil so it is therefore, by default, the most efficient method available.
You are welcome to demonstrate (even just the names of) the methods that are capable for remineralising the complete spectrum of 90+ minerals into the soil - which do not involve rockdust. There are many, many people (including farmers) operating on the premise that what you have claimed here does not exist.
They are getting sick and ending up in hospital due to greed and lack of attention to detail all around.
Permaculture addresses this. Anyone who studies the topic knows that the entire system of production can be managed in more evolved ways that don't really cause any problems. You aren't 'schooling' me at all here, but I enjoy when people are able to - I have learned a great deal from many of the world's most knowledgeable people.
If a project yields far less food then I would expect it to use far less fuel. Homegrow projects that yield way more than a family can use are capable of operating using barely any extra fuel than the family would use anyway. Decentralisation.
They're not clueless when it comes to soil regeneration. Period. End of story.
I go by evidence only.
You sit on your computer. I can do that too...
https://www.gardenmyths.com/rock-dust-remineralize-earth/
Some folks would say you're even trying to sell snake oil.
Cover crops, crop rotation, natural fertilizers like manure. Rockdust alone can't compete with that, if do anything at all. I don't even think you realize how big of a place like Saskatchewan is. Sprinkling something that size with dust won't do shit. Unless you enjoy building craters for no real reason at all. Soil conservation is far more complex than you realize, and agriculture is evolving in practice. It's not just some theory cooked up my some city boy dreaming about urban permaculture. Had there not been advances, the soil around here would have been dry desert dust bowl a long time ago.
I like evidence as well. I can go touch the soil, work it, plant in it. Can see it with my own eyes. Plants don't grow in dead soil. That's kind of a dead giveaway.