RE: SIMPLE QUESTION: When does a scientist cease being a scientist?
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No I never said antibiotics don't 'work' they clearly do just not in the way people think. Yes they have a place but only in the most dire circumstances. Your tooth analogy is wrong too, I had an absessed tooth when I was a child. I had that absess for years and eventually the tooth was just a shell. Weirdly I had no pain from it either until the tooth was almost gone and my mum took me to the dentist to have it pulled. No antibiotics and didn't die. You keep saying you might die without the antibiotics but where is the proof of that, it's only the doctors word. They also say we might die from flu or measles (or covid) but you know all those things are actually only caused by mismanagement. Iatrogenesis is the leading cause of death not 'infections'. In other words doctors kill, germs don't ;-)
The abscesses that kill typically have pain, high fevers, and other symptoms.
I had one that actually was in my gums not me teeth. My teeth were hurting really badly but it ended up being in my gums. The pain was just radiating. My teeth were actually fine.
I went for about two weeks of pain on that before I took some antibiotics and it went away. After that they of course wanted more appointments. I hadn't been to a dentist in over a decade. I generally don't need to.
I also already decided I'll have a tooth pulled before I get a root canal. That ends up being not particularly healthy to do (root canal) from what I've researched. I had one tooth pulled. Strangely the empty socket that needed to heal and have my gums heal over hurt less than the tooth did before it was pulled.
That's my teeth woes... one pulled tooth, and one abscessed gum and I am 50.
Though I don't eat a lot of sugary things, and I haven't touched alcohol or drugs and such since I was 16 and at that time I'd done so little that I'd been stoned from marijuana maybe 6 times, and I'd never been drunk or had a hangover.
Why mention that? I know many of those things can contribute to teeth problems. Perhaps that is why I haven't had many. I don't know.
Some of my children who haven't done those things either have had far more problems with teeth than I ever have.
It is possible the abscessed gum would have healed itself. After two weeks of pain and a slight fever all I know is after the antibiotics it went away almost immediately.
Anecdotal yes. Yet I also think people are quick to brush aside anecdotal evidence when it can still have relevance. It should not be taken as proof. Yet it can still be considered as potentially relevant.
I'm not an anecdotal snob no, thats thos skeptics who spit on anecdotal but everything is anecdotal if you look at it. The scientist recording his results is giving us his anecdotal opinion of what they mean.
As I said before I never said antibiotics didn't 'work'. They just are not 'curing' they are just postponing. If you knew the pain meant something good was happening would you ride it through or manage it differently?
Remember the old adage, no pain no gain?
Exactly. Everything is anecdotal. Who is the authority that gets to decide when enough anecdotes have been collected that it can no longer be considered just anecdotal and thus dismissable?
I think if you put a white coat on they can call anecdotal-science
"But my piece of paper says..."
yeh right
Many times. I am loathe to go to the doctor, or dentists. (EDIT: Especially today. Don't want COVID tests, demands for vaccination, etc.)
I usually have been in pain for quite awhile before I go. I apparently have a pretty high pain threshold as well. I suspect 13 years of the gal bladder attacks has something to do with that.
What things did you try before going to the docs?
The first time it happened was sudden and out of nowhere and the pain was so bad there was absolutely no point where it was relieved and I went from curled up, standing up, lying down, and moved seeking a position of comfort while sweat beaded up and poored off of my body. I also was dry heaving due to the pain.
We lived over an hour from the nearest medical center. We went to the nearby medical center and they gave me vicodin, and some muscle relaxant and because I never take anything like that it knocked me out.
I woke up the next day feeling like I had a baseball sitting under my solar plexus.
They sent me to get some scans and such. Yet out of the years of going to see people it was only that final time 13 years later that they bothered doing a sonogram of the galbladder and saw all of the stones.
I didn't have an opportunity to do much.
I did stop taking in dairy because that seemed like a definite trigger but proved not to be the only one.
The only lull I got was for a little over 3 years. That was when my wife got fed up with the doctors and had me try peppermint oil pills, and I took some Glutamine powder every day mixed with water, juice, tea, etc. (anything as long as it was not carbonated)
I didn't drink coffee back then.
Once I started taking those things my attacks went away for over 3 years until the final major one so I will say the peppermint oil and glutamine powder seem to have been WAY more effective than anything the doctors were proscribing. EDIT: considering the stones though it appears it was just masking the problem. Those stones could have been there a long time.
If they'd been there a long time why suddenly the pain tho? It's kinda too late to be going over the woulda coulda shoulda's now tho. The deal is done, no more gall bladder. Yeh doctors suck. I had an ectopic pregnancy once and walked to the docs doubled over the whole way and he sent me home with anti-bloody-biotics!!! I washed rushed into emergancy 4 hours later almost dead from internal bleeding.
Yep. Authoritarianism of any kind tends to lead to these bad things. Whether they drape themselves in titles like Leader, Doctor, Professor, Teacher, Priest, Scientist, King, Queen, Master, Lord, Lady, Scientist, etc.
Being blinded by your own "expertise" often leads to disaster.
I would say being blinded by someone elses 'expertise' is where the danger lies. I used to plant stickers that said 'question authority' and that was a good 10-15 years ago.
All I can think is the stones had possibly been forming for awhile and it was only then that one got into a duct or something. That is the only explanation I have for why it suddenly hit me out of nowhere.
Ah yes that would make sense, so maybe your body was actually trying to eject the stone. Why would they not simply take out the stones instead of the whole organ? Butchers!!
If it was a few stones I could see them doing that. My gal bladder was enlarged enough by the time they took it out (recall this had been going on for 13 years) that they had to actually increase the size of the incision because my gal bladder was oversized due to the amount of stones in it.
I remember still thinking "Why didn't anyone do a sonogram on any single time I went to a hospital ER, medical center, or drove 4 hours to see a Specialist?"
I remember the specialist cost us $600 at a time we didn't have much money. Didn't have insurance. That was a huge expenditure for us that year.
He talked to me for less than hour, ordered some tests he'd contact me about, and diagnosed me with Irritable Bowl Syndrome.
Like I said my wife eventually became really pissed off...
I just wanted the pain to stop.
At any point did you try any alternative practises? I tried many alternatives on my son after the allopaths gave him asthma. I eventually found one that worked and stuck with that even when he was having full blown asthma attacks they brought him back quicker and safer than a hospital did.
Yeah... as I stated eventually my wife went with some common herbs and proteins.
That stopped the attacks for over 3 years and then the big one hit and landed me in the hospital. Prior to that I was lucky if I could make it a month without an attack. Which lasted for years.
When it first happened I lived in Lake City, Colorado. 56 miles from nearest hospital. No fast food restaurants. Most restaurants were only open in the summer and during months Tourists and people with summer homes were there.
I drank soda back then. I also drank a lot of water. It was some of the best tasting water I've ever had. However, I was not filtering it back then. This is an old Silver mining town with two rivers flowing into the town from up old canyons that have old mines in them.
For all I know I had something being caused by something in the water. It certainly wasn't a fast food thing because we didn't have a single fast food restaurant. Those were 56 miles away in Gunnison where the hospital is at.
I had pains that would come in my gut often after I drank milk, though not always. The pains were severe and I'd have sweat beading off of my body and I would dry heave due to pain. It would last in the worst case hours.
The first time it happened I lived a little over an hour from the nearest hospital in the mountains. I went to our local medical center.
They put me on vicodin for the first time (I don't use drugs so have a very low tolerance) and the dose they administered absolutely knocked me out. They had me on a muscle relaxant as well due to not knowing what was causing the pain.
I woke up the next morning and the pain was gone but I had this sensation almost like a baseball was resting beneath my solar plexus.
They sent me to get some tests. They drew blood, sat me in a donut shaped device after having me drink some radioactive dye and they used that test to determine if my galbladder was functioning properly. It came back saying I was fine.
I had more attacks. I got in the habit of avoiding milk. That seemed like something that could trigger an attack though it was not the only thing.
They sent me to a specialist a good 4 hour drive from my house. I didn't have insurance and had to pay cash. I mention that because, they sometimes treat people like that with less attention and seriousness.
He gave me a diagnosis of IBS (Irritable Bowl Syndrome) and sent me away recommending Prilosec and things like that.
They also gave me Vicodin prescription... a small amount. I'd take half a pill when I'd have an attack as unlike some people I hate the stuff and I hate the feeling. Though it did mask the pain.
I'd have attacks... one night my dad drove me to that hospital an hour away... and the doctor there treated me like I was just there for vicodin (I know that is common) and he acted like I wasn't in pain until I puked on the floor as I was doubled over. He sent me off with a Vicodin prescription with 6 pills in it.
My wife had enough. She decided to try some things on her own. She had me take some peppermint oil pills (I greatly enjoy the side effects) and Glutamine powder. I took that daily.
I didn't have any attacks for 3+ years when prior to that they were at least monthly, if not several times a month.
During that three year period I happened to take one of my kids to that emergency room with a broken bone. The same doctor was there. I reached into my fanny pack (yeah, I'm one of those people) and I pulled out a little container that still had 3 vicodin in it out of the 6 and it was almost a year later and I asked him "Do you want these back?" as he was the guy who seemed to treat me more like a druggy than actually want to treat me. He didn't take them. It was for my satisfaction.
3+ years later I'd moved to Denver area. We were eating some hot wings.
That night I had a huge attack. It was the first in over 3 years and it was the worst of them all. We went to the emergency room.
They actually bothered doing a sonogram of my galbladder and could see big galstones. Imagine that... out of all of those specialists and tests not once did they ever bother doing a sonogram.
They booked me for emergency surgery... when I woke up in recovery. The doctor said he ended up having to make the incision larger to remove the galbladder because of how large it was. There were numerous stones the size of a pencil eraser and smaller ones as well as "sludge". He said my galbladder was almost gangrenous and had I not come in that night odds are I'd have been dead the next day. The pain was severe enough they had me on morphine and other things.
Then my incident where if I was the litigious type I likely could have sued for malpractice occurred. I almost died due to the nurses and others ignoring me and giving me that similar treatment that one doctor did. They treated me like my symptoms I was describing and the problems I was encountering were because I wanted pain meds or something.
I actually requested they lower dosages when I didn't like the results.
Yet it turns out that surgery did not completely seal up things and I was leaking bile into my body cavity for quite some time before they started "listening"... almost too late.
My urine was the color of coffee and I was puking of bile and I looked like a full term pregnant woman before they finally thought something was wrong...
Turned a normally 2-3 day hospital trip into a 23 day hospital trip, actually two trips... they sent me home debating whether to use anti-biotics or not after almost 2 weeks with tubes pumping fluids OUT of my body cavity. They decided not to. I was back in within a week with pain, fever, and then they spent another week or so pumping pus out of my body with more tubes. Large amounts of it.
Almost died twice during this process...
I've managed to avoid any other overnight stays at the hospital and I do not do pain pills.
I went in when I was young for blood poisoning... red line running up leg from wound with gravel in it. Too young to know what they did to treat it. Just know I got several shots. Didn't stay over night.
Another time I got a creasote soaked large splinter in the back of my arm and had to go get that taken out at an emergency room... I was also very young then.
EDIT: I can drink milk and other things just fine now. I avoid sugar and keep my sodium intake low due to having high blood pressure a couple of years ago. Most of my problems are lack of sufficient exercise.
EDIT 2: My ordeal with galbladder lasted 13 years prior to that surgery. 13 years of painful attacks and B.S. from the medical profession.
Sounds like you had Crohns. Dairy is notoriously bad for humans (and other animals). All your problems could have been avoided if you'd changed ur diet. I hear so many gall bladder stories these days and all from people on the SAD diet.
Did you know that vitamin C (lack of it) is a leading cause of tooth decay. I was given no fruit as a child and know that's why I had bad teeth. I've not visited a dentist in 15 years since going plant-based (or doctors either).
Maybe that is a reason I have had relatively few teeth problems. I do take Vitamin C regularly and am fond of fruit. I also take Vitamin D regularly. I had some cramping years ago that went away when I started taking Vitamin D.
As to Crohns. If I had it... it went away as soon as my gal bladder was removed. I have no problems with Dairy now.
I did reduce my consumption of it in the past year but prior to that Cheese was one of my favorite things.
That sounds like a real life version of the red light on the dashboard analogy. You just took the little bulb out but the problem is still there you just can't see it any more. It seems like whipping out the gall bladder is the new tonsilectomy or appendectomy. They later found out the appendix DOES have an important function as do the tonsils. It makes you wonder how the body compensates after the loss of these organs. Maybe if you'd ditched the cheese years ago it would have been fine? Allopaths know nothing about natural diet. I was taken to visit a friends mother in a top cardiac hospital in London (supposedly the best in the country) and I saw what they were feeding patients with heart failure. It would make ur hair curl!!!
Yep... It is indeed possible.